Edgar Westbury Wallaby ignition

Duncan,

That is how I financed running my little Honda 50 sprint (the proper motorcycle variant). I did buy it beforehand, but cannot remember how the purchase was financed!

You can see, from that video you posted, that those tractors used a radiator for cooling. Yes, they did often boil when working hard - but for that ploughing he only had the radiator blind part way up.

Those old Fordsons needed heating up well, before turning from petrol (for starting) to TVO, so the blind was quite a necessity. TVO was far cheaper than petrol!

There were tractors with better heat transfer to the manifold than the Fordson Standard. I can start my 7 1/4 litre tractor with less than 1 litre of petrol, before changing to kerosene. The old Fordson popped and banged for ages before it was hot enough to run on TVO - and if it stopped it was often trouble to restart!

I know they had a radiator, but not pressurised, so at running temp when working hard haymaking in summer, the water evaporated and had to be topped up fairly frequently. If it was cold you might have to blank the radiator to get it hot. They didn't pull well when cold, or perhaps it was just the one I was lumbered with. The grey fergie was much nicer, and the MF 135? was even better. I never got a go at the Fordson major, that was reserved for the baler, and that was the gaffer's domain

The ‘sit-up-and-beg’ EN27 fordson major had the same engine as the earlier standard fordson. Ours was gutless, likely due to the gearing and lack of horse power. I think you may be referring to the later EN1A, which was the petrol version of the much popular diesel variant?

It's nearly 60 years ago, I've no idea what the model number was, probably didn't know back then. Petrol/tvo, hand crank to start, cast iron header tank to radiator and a very bouncy seat mounted on a leaf spring is all I remember.

We had the same/similar engines in some railway locos on the R&ER, made by Muir Hill. Horrible to start as the side frames restricted access to the winding handle. One of them is in the museum, not sure if it can still be run, at one point it had con rod sticking out of crank case, but there was a move afoot to find a replacement engine. I remember that the loco version had a multiplate steel on steel clutch. No oil pump, it relied on splash with dipper tubes on the big end caps.

A few comments:

The coil for use with a Kettering* battery system is not the same as one for capacitor discharge. The proportions of the two windings are quite different, as is (usually) the design of the magnetic circuit. So, when buying a coil you need to say which sort of coil, as well as single or twin output.

Single output coils can be used on a twin with a crank-speed contact-breaker - the idle spark has no real effect on plug-life, or electric consumption. They also work on a V-twin, but you need a contact cam at camshaft speed and with two lumps to match the angle of the engine.

The idea of a six-volt coil on a 12v system using a resistor to knock the voltage down, was used mainly on big cars which were not always good starters. there was an extra contact in the starter solenoid that shorted out the resistance when the starter was operating - compensating for the reduction in battery voltage as the starter drew 200 amps or so. And relying on the fact that the boost to the coil was only for a few seconds so overheating was not a problem. Some systems also used a resistor which as it warmed up in use, increased its resistance. So, you got a boosted spark at start-up, and less drain on the battery as the engine warmed to running temp (and so needed less biff in the spark).

* Kettering ignition is the proper name for what is often called 'coil ignition' or battery and coil ignition'. Confusion can be caused as almost all ignition systems have coils, and almost all vehicles have batteries too. Kettering was the Chief Elecric Engineer for the DELCO company in the USA, and his work led to the eventual abandonment of magnetos - especially (you guessed!) in American cars - starting about 1912.

Cheers, Tim

latest, firstly does anyone know where i can get a drill dog bone drill starter attachment for larger engines. The usual ones i see on ebay are too small. Currently i have been using a small drill chuck key which is quite a good fit but could be better. Quick update:-

Minimag dual ignition CDI setup and working. Good spark and timing looks good.

Will it start NO. I think it did fire briefly for about 2 seconds but since then nothing.

Fuel is getting to the carb and even squirted some directly in. Still nothing. The time i think it did fire i used a 12v RC IC engine twist starter which gives a much faster spin than an electric drill so wondering if it needs a fast spin up.

Using 97 octane E5 fuel with redex added, i use this on my Gannet engine which works fine.

Checked one plug which appeared a bit wet after spinning it up with finger over carb. If i can get a better starter arrangement i will try again. Any info on dog bone starter or experience with these engine would be much appreciated.

In addition, i should have mentioned that if i spin the engine continuously with the throttle closed it spins easily and as i open the throttle the compression seems to increase.

I decided to drop the oil out, its hard to tell but the oil does smell a bit petrol so i wonder if i need to strip it down and check the gaskets everywhere. Although im sure how fuel would make it into sump ? so maybe its just the way the oil smells.

If you flood it enough the fuel will get past the ring gaps. I usually find most model engines only need the needle valve opening a very small amount as the mixture soon gets too rich

I don't use a drill much for starting but made my own drive dog arrangement when I did need it. I either just flick the flywheels over by hand, use a short pull cord or a starting handle.

Thanks i didnt think about that, i dont like using a drill to start engines but it would be difficult to hand flick the flywheel. I do have the twist starter and pulley which i use on the Gannet but the flywheel is very smooth with no groove. I will see if i can fashion something so i get a more positive centre on it.

Andy Cameron says:

Throttle closed = spins easy
Throttle open = harder to spin

Exactly as one might expect. With no air getting in there is nothing to compress, but allow the air in and I expect you have a 10:1 CR or thereabouts = hard work.

If ever you coast down a hill in gear, (ignition off) then you get more effective retarding as you press the loud pedal. But don't do this in a modern car with a key-linked steering lock, or you will also explore the hedge.

Cheers, Tim

I was hoping someone would confirm that i.e. open throttle more compression, so that to me is good news. I assume there would be little difference using a CDI unit as opposed to a coil ? i.e. does one spark sooner/later than the other effectively changing the timing. I will try the CDI unit on the Gannet which currently has a 6V lucas coil setup with points. This CDI i have sparks on the points opening so acts the same as a coil setup but i guess it could be possible that one sparks sooner/later than the other.

As an aside about ballast resistor coils, it was not unknown to have a wire on the starter that fed the coil directly (effectively shorting out the ballast resistor )

So when cranking and the load pulled down the battery voltage, from 12V to about 7 or 8, that was applied to the primary of the coil. Result a nice big fat, high energy spark, and first fire!

Releasing the starter returned the feed to the coil through the ballast resistor, so the battery, no longer loaded by the starter, returned to 12V , or more (aided by the dynamo or alternator) and the coil lived to fight another day.

The magnetos on Fordson N and E27N was a "Trip mag", so that at low speeds (hand cranking ) the rotor was given an additional "flick" by a spring, generating a higher voltage for the spark; to aid starting.

Until powers rose to the point where greater flow rates were required (And hence pump circulation ) many of the older low specific output side valve engines were thermo-syphon cooled.

For Fords, this persisted until the OHV engines such the Consul, Zephyr and 105E Anglia came along. Ford did offer a pump "For Export" which mounted on the front mounting bracket, to be belt driven off the front pulley, as was the fan.

It was popular with those tuning the 1172cc engine for specials and 750 Club racing.

The prewar, and postwar Vauxhall H and J types, being OHV and more powerful for their displacement, did have pump assisted cooling. The seal was a small carbon disc with three ears. If it wore and began to leak, a "Get you out of jail card" was to strip the pump, reverse the seal and continue. Before it wore and leaked again, you, if wise, had a new seal in stock!

As powers increased, so did the heat rejected to coolant, and the need for greater mass flows of coolant. The 230 bhp (24 bhp / litre ) Perkins TV8-640 required 80 gallons per minute when at full power

The Gardner 6LW delivering about 11 bhp / litre made do with a simple brass paddle wheel to circulate coolant, and much smaller pipework.

Howard.

A CDI and coil may trigger differently, the coil will spark when the contact opens a CDI may spark when it closes.

I suggest you make a simple check of the operating sequence. Remove the spark plugs and rest them on top of the engine so you can see when they spark and then slowly turn the engine by hand.

The inlet valve should open at or just before top dead centre and the exhaust valve should be just closing.

The inlet valve should close just after bottom dead centre.

The plug should spark just before top dead centre.

The exhaust valve should open just before bottom dead centre.

The exhaust valve should close at or just after top dead centre and the inlet valve should be just starting to open.

Repeat for the second cylinder.

If you don't get this sequence some deeper investigation of the camshaft and ignition system will be required.

All seems ok with that sequence, the CDI unit is designed to act as a coil i.e. it sparks when the points open. With the plugs out i can also see that the spark occurs when holding the plug on the block just before TDC. Its a wasted spark setup as the crank is 360 degrees so one cylinder sparks on exhaust the other on compression and so on. I checked the oil again and there is definitely fuel in it so maybe i was just flooding the engine, i would have expected some sign of ignition though.

How good is the compression? The usual description is that it should be 'springy', something like this:

https://youtu.be/1Z3wXPAkC2U

Surely Howard the second wire to the primary on the coil from the starter solenoid feed gave 12 volts to the coil while the key was turned for starting then reverted back to the ballast wire for running when started?

Has the engine ever been running or don't you know? What carburettor has it, the Westbury one?

By a dogbone do you mean the bar and pin that goes into the starting dog?

Compression seems good, especially if the carb is opened. By hand there is a noticeable compression point. I have made up a better dog bone drill attachment as the commercial ones are too small that i have found. I tested the CDI unit on my Gannet engine which usually has a 6v lucas coil. The engine ran well with the CDI unit and points as a trigger so i know thats not an issue. I have noticed that the Wallaby has been spitting oil from somewhere, looks like its from the fill point which seems to double as a crankcase vent, its hard to tell the oil level on the dipstick so i have emptied it and will refill. I did notice when i first put oil in that compression increased. the engine has run previously and is setup on a nice bench rig, the plugs also show signs that it has run.

In addition the carb looks like a more modern RC engine carb typically seen on glow plug engines.