Serious question, What is a Mini Lathe?

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Barrie,.......Thanks for gentlemanly reply!

.....We all see a different 'Big picture' and getting to realise that is actually the 'Biggest Picture' to see!

Bob

Barrie, and Bob

I am pleased to see a ceasefire ... long may it continue

Opinions may be strongly held, and are often formed within an individual's personal 'reference frame'

A forum like this is [or at least should be] a place where we can freely express and discuss those opinions for the common good ...

MichaelG.

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Barrie,

I thought 'ceasefire' [a temporary suspension of hostlities] to be the appropriate word; but I'm happy to consider alternatives.

MichaelG.

The Chinese are very good at taking a long term view, sometimes several generations

India is unlikely to become a large scale manufacturing centre for the simple reason the country lacks natural resources - no Oil, Iron ore etc. Whilst China import huge volumes of raw resource, their command economy, centrally planned infrastructure, opaque financial investments and currency manipulation give huge commercial advantage to local producers

And back to the original question lest this be a thread drift too far...

I think Dave hit the nail on the head with his definition

Frankly I don't care what my lathe (WM180) is classified as, it's what I have to hand (until I fix the WM240) so it is the best available to me. I'm still learning and the lathe is way more competent than I am, doesn't stop me wanting a bigger, better lathe though

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The debate could go on forever, because it depends on what floats your boat. Dog owners tend to dislike cats.

Chinese hobby lathes have their place, as do more expensive lathes. I have a utilitarian view of tools, not only is 'good-enough' sufficient, spending good money on 'better' is a wasteful sin! But it's all a matter of perspective and I respect people who enjoy good tools.

Looking at the big picture shows most modern machine tools are unaffordium. Big picture today is dominated by multi-axis CNC machines consuming 10kW or more, physically too big for most workshops, and costing £200,000 and up. How about run-out better than 0.02mm a metre away from the 3 jaw chuck running at 20000 to 30000 rpm?

While good quality manual engine lathes will always have a role, they've been losing ground for at least a century. The technological gap between a Myford Super 7 and a Machine Centre is far bigger than the gap between a mini-lathe and a Super 7! Big picture, all hobby machines are inferior, so why worry about it...

Dave

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Isn't "quality" subjective?

Not being picky, pedantic or looking for a fight - I can't afford / justify a top quality lathe or mill yet, I set my expectations on what I can achieve accordingly and as commented, my WM180 is far more capable than I am which points to the "quality" of product this operator produces, not the "quality" of the machine I use

Taking a more extreme view, the pdf recently attached explaining what Japanese POWs produced is simply astounding and far more impressive than anything I can produce - that's what I call quality

Almost everything is inferior to something else, hardly anything is the very best.

The concept of 'inferiority' is a paper tiger and if you fear it you will never be satisfied.

Neil

Barrie, if I were fortunate enough to be in your position with a long family history of using and owning (presumably British or European or American) machine tools, I don't think I would find it too hard to understand that very few other enthusiasts are so fortunate as to have "better propositions available" to them (unless by "available" you include having to hunt for them secondhand with all the risks and inconvenience that entails) than a Chinese mini-lathe.

In the light of the relative unavailability of older and often (but not always) better made alternatives, isn't the widespread enthusiasm for the Chinese mini-lathe completely understandable?

The way I see it, I'd rather go for a new Chinese lathe knowing it will run straight out of the box (in my case it didn't - had a loose elec connection) with my mind at rest that it's covered by a warranty. Buying a second hand branded lathe is a bigger risk in my opinion, especially so if I have no prior experience of how the particular lathe works and what to look for.

If you know the machine inside out, know what to look for and find one at a good price than that's fine, it's the way to go, but surely not for a beginner. I think, were it not for the mini lathe, this hobby would be prohibitive to most.

In industry, I learnt that nothing is perfect. I learnt to turn on a Drummond 1912 treadle lathe aged 12, turning brass. Now lets get this correct, PLEASE. The beloved Myford ML7 series lathe was produced after WW2 as a cheap lathe for people interested in model engineering to get a lathe. This was why parts are made of zinc, to keep its cost down. No ML7 series lathe was perfect & that includes the Super 7. So it is no surprise that the better the man or woman using it is at turning, the better the work they turn out.

I have been reading about modern model making lathes. Certain things stand out. First young people have smaller houses & gardens than in the 1950s. With less space comes a need for small lathes. Second the emergence of the Mini Lathe. The first ones to grab a part of the market were the 7 x 10 lathes (actually 7" x 8". The advantage they gave over the Adept lathe was an inbuilt motor. Soon they got an American circuit board for a semblance of reliability. Time tells us that these lathes are better than any baby lathe of the 1930s or 1950s. There is a big group of Americans very keen on these lathes. All manner of add-ons are available. Lots of improvements can be made to stiffen them up. They are the modern buy to improve lathe. To me they are like a basic post-war Ford side valve car with 6 volt electrics & pneumatic wipers. Lots were sold & lots were improved.

Would I want one No. They are no Lorch. Can they do a good job YES if you improve yours. Its just that I prefer a bit more weight in a serious lathe. For me you need to start with a 180 x 300 lathe with around 70 Kg weight. You still need to clean it with vigour. Chinese lathes have a reputation for being full of grit & unfinished surfaces. They are cheap & corners are cut. The minimum possible gib screws possible is normal. The better bet is to move up to a 400 mm centres lathe like a WM240 or equivalent. Still, a short lathe but heavier.

People say to me why a Chinese lathe rather than an older British lathe. To me it is simple, the Chinese lathe is new with its future in front of it, that you can improve to make it stiffer. The old Brit is, OLD, worn out & its future is behind it. People then say. There are lots of good lathes out there, yes there are, but if they are good, get there first! Best forget about them, for every good one half a dozen people will want it & pay over the odds to get it. It will also be a bigger lathe than you want to use your limited space for.

Regards,

Mervyn Price