I screwed up!

Bazyle,

Ah, didn't think of having a rule in the photos, and I AM always moaning when they aren't!

I must, must put myself in the shoes of someone else trying to tackle this for the first time as well.

Hmm, I need to buy a roll of copper tubing now, as I will be doing a modification to the way the gears in the gearbox are lubricated, photos of the present method added to the original Folder

Have more photos to add, but I had had it by the time I posted yesterday, and they need to be annotated first. I posted too few too soon me thinks now.

Will rectify my error ASAP and post when done. I remember a French colleague actually pronouncing ASAP as a word, with much glee, there being nothing similar in the French language.

Geoff - BH it's cold! Feels it after the heat we've had.

"Will rectify my error ASAP and post when done. I remember a French colleague actually pronouncing ASAP as a word, with much glee, there being nothing similar in the French language."

ASAP as a word? - of course!! ALWAYS said that way during my 35+ years in Auntie Betty's Flying Club!

Separate letters are for Management Consultants

Rgds
Bill

Bazyle,

Don't know what happened between my attempt to remove the collar over the Leadscrew connection to the gearbox output failed, but on Sunday morning it just slid away with ease, thus allowing me to knock the spring pin out and remove said screw.

As requested, new photos uploaded this time with a measuring stick in position. Sorry about the first lot.

One thing that should have hit me between the eyes as soon I put the Apron on the work bench, was that the oil reservoir beneath the 'Oil' plug, on the RH side of the saddle, was NOT connected to the oil channels, therefore, a complete waste of space!

You could have merrily squirted oil in all day, but NOT a drop would have found its way to the gears or shafts in the Apron.

I have, meanwhile, opened that reservoir to the channels, BUT all that will now happen in that the oil will disappear either down the nearest oil hole to the first shaft, or that copper pipe that ends somewhere amongst the gears, with not a drop getting to the rear oil channel.

A solution is called for, and the only one I can think of right now is to drill holes in strategic positions and fit spring oilers, and block off the oil channel where deemed necessary.

With the Leadscrew removed, I've now been able to suspend the Apron in place, so now easy to determine the best positions for the new oilers.

All suggestions are welcome and needed right now please.

I sincerely hope that Anthony Mount reads this, as I'm not sure if he has yet to remove the Apron from his BH600G, as he hasn't some so at the end of his series.

If not Anthony, PLEASE check that the RH oil reservoir IS connected to the oil channels!

If anyone reading this post knows of other owners of BH600 and equivalent lathes, please advise the, to do the same.

Let me know if further photos are required.

I've also discovered what I can only describe as a 'Hit-and-Miss' method of getting oil to the gears in the Norton gearbox, that made me shudder. I've made a new Photo Album and will be doing a separate post.

Bill,

Before that French guy, colleagues and I never pronounced them/it as a word.

Would be interesting to see who comes up with what to flesh out A.S.A.P.

Geoff - Finishing the extra T-slots in Cross-slide today.

Geoff, This is fantastic info for a whole range of lathe owners not just the BH600.

It might be worth noting in the captions that the rack drive gear is inserted on the wrong side on some photos to avoid confusion.

Are the oil galleries exposed inside when the saddle is in position or covered in? I think if the copper pipe didn't drain it off the oil holes would work since eoch one would fill up - their bottoms are blocked by the shafts (until worn by lack of oil). If the sump is filled up a bit I imagine there would be oil moving between gears and hence onto the shafts so not really a catastrophe. If oil gets onto the highest gear perhaps a scraper can pull it off and feed it into the oil gallery.

ASAP I thought 'Ay-sap' and 'asap' were common pronunciations.

Bazyle,

Oh bollocks, is all I can say!

I put in from the wrong effing side! How bleep bleep clever of me!

Will correct this glaring error and replace the photo.

All of the oil channels are covered by the Saddle, but I'm now able to visually check where to put spring oiling points, the easiest being above the reservoir that has the copper tube leading from it.

Yes, your comments re the drilled holes filling with oil did cross my mind after I posted, but thought I would wait to see who pointed it out first

Still means that that copper tube would, I think, still gulp any oil, thus prevent any getting to the rear channel and holes.

Will get back to the Apron as soon as T-slots done.

Geoff - Time to have words whilst looking in a mirror. Can't believe what I did.

All misleading photos have now been removed.

Easier to so than add extra annotations.

New photos to follow ASAP

Geoff - Workshop here I come.

More thoughts.

The right hand oil hole looks like a modification after they decided the left hand one was too near the swarf. (note: dictionary doesn’t like this word). You might find some pictures on the web of another version with the filler that side. I suggest drilling a new filler hole in the saddle and block or reduce the copper pipe flow with a bit of pipe cleaner. Make an overflow groove in the old filler reservoir and the furthest point of the other gallery plus give it a very small drain hole so it drains overnight. Then for oiling you fill the ‘new’ reservoir until you see oil appearing in the old one at which point you can assume it has also progressed the same distance along the other gallery. The drain hole is necessary to give you a clean start each time. I now see the inner gallery is open topped in the middle under the cross slide so without the overflow mentioned earlier it will dribble down the outside.

You could also drill another vertical hole from the inner gallery near the worm with a small hole (so it doesn’t rob the gallery) at the bottom outwards. Under this hole put a small diverter tab to lead the oil over the worm. Thus it gets a measured supply at each oiling.

Since each oiling will put 1-2 cc more oil in the sump it will soon start to seep out of the available holes rather messily. If you make one of your drain plugs a tall tube up to a suitable level it will act as an overflow under which you can place a catcher.

Hi Geoff,

I think there is a different interpretation regarding the apron and its lubrication. On mine the apron is secured from the top by 4 M8 cap screws located with 2 dowel pins, I am not sure yours is the same. The oil filler cap is on the RH side (Warco type) and I think the long front (oil) groove is not there as a feeder to the spindle bearings but as a means of stopping the oil from spreading to the outside front of the apron. On mine if you look up at the 'join' there is a visible gap along the font joining edge, ie. the saddle base does not mate to the apron, so if there was no groove then the oil would, on filling, seep out and drip down the front of the apron instead of filling the apron. Now, again on mine, if I add a single squirt of oil then after a few minutes oil can be seen just showing from the front spindle bearing ends so I think when the apron is correctly filled with oil it is at the spindle bearing level and any additional oil simply seeps out, as expected. My guess is for those that have the oil filler cap on the LH side (Chester type) the oil when filled needs a feeder thus the copper pipe to just fill the apron and if not present the oil would not find an easy path to the inside. Unfortunately I am not about to strip mine to prove this but assuming there is a reasonable depth of oil in the apron then the motion of the gears will lubricate all bearings and spindles. The Grizzly manual talks of 3/4 pint in the apron but I am not sure how that translates to depth.

The BH600G gearbox and its unusual lubrication drip method I think is more than adequate for a gear cluster that is basically running dry (ie not in a permanent oil bath). The gears need very little oil to work well and mine when delivered had thick grease which just made the gears sticky and work hard when meshing. Most of the bearings in the gearbox are ball bearings and probably need very little direct lubrication. I stripped mine down to remove all the grease and find that the oil drip does work especially as the gears spread the oil when meshing and rotating. If you have any worries it is a ten second job to remove the front cover and wipe over the gear clusters with a very oily rag. My Myford ML7 has a similar homemade gearbox (Machin) and lubrication is by means of removing the top cover and squirting oil over the gears - has worked for 40 years with no fails so I think the BH600G will be ok also.

Hope this helps

Graham

Edited By graham howe on 11/09/2013 18:06:55

If interested, look at: Arc's one shot oiling system

Neil

New photos added, with the rack gear drive at the rear, thanks to Bazyle pointing out my error.

Appreciate all the comments and suggestions.

I just need to finish the Cross-slide then I will have a look at what to do about the oiling of Apron & Gearbox.

Geoff - 12hr kip last night!

Take Heart! If it is any consolation, you are not alone in your troubles!

But it is a bit worrying that the gears and their shafts may go short on lubrication.

Also, I lack your courage to remove and strip the Saddle.

My lathe is a BH600 lookalike (E.T.R. BL12-24) so it is to be hoped that yours was a Friday afternoon product, or that the channel IS meant to prevent oil leakage. I have filled up the Saddle reservoir at various times, and the level has dropped, so the oil has gone somewhere. (Where intended and needed, I hope, after 10 years of use!).

I made and fitted a fourway indexing Rear Tool Post, to match the Front Toolpost, which can foul the Chuck Guard when working close to the Headstock. To allow me to work close up when using ER collet chucks, I shortened the shaft for the Chuck Guard microswitch, (the guard now fits via a sleeve secured with a grubscrew into a dimple on the shortened shaft).

Inattention allowed me to run the saddle up against the headstock casting under power.

(The feed was slow, but there was plenty of torque available because another mod. was to make a 80T input gear for the Norton box to halve the feed rate. With the compound gear suitably arranged, the minimum feed is 0.0022/rev. This does require the GearCover Closure stud to be repositioned)

Then, the Saddle Traverse Handwheel had tight spots, so I suspected a bent pinion shaft..

1) I drove out the roll pin from the drive shaft and replaced it with a brass pin, in the hope that the next time I am foolish, it will shear.

2) Being scared of stripping out the Saddle, I resorted to brutal methods.

I cut a piece of cardboard (ex cereal packet) and held it against the rack whilst traversing the saddle over the full length of the cardboard. The tight spots were very tight, but removing the cardboard left the saddle traverse without tight spots.

Conclusions.

1) The need to be vigilant and attentive at all times.

2) The pinion shaft must be very soft and malleable, since the elimination of gear/rack backlash by the cardboard bent the pinion shaft back at least part way towards being straight. (At least it appears to have saved the gears from any major damage, so it can't all be bad)

One other problem on the 12-24 was that there was a ball oiler placed, inaccessibly, immediately beneath the Cross Slide feedscrew Handle. I did have the courage to remove the "sliding/surfacing" control assembly. The Ball oiler was removed, and the hole plugged with a short piece of 6mm brass rod. Another hole was drilled on the side facing the tailstock end, and a new ball oiler fitted.

Refitting the control assembly so that the handle was in the right position was a bit fiddly, but "Third Time Lucky" held good.

I can now force oil into the oiler and see it appear at the bearings for the control.

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 14/09/2013 17:48:07

It's done at last!

Treatment and that horrible winter virus put the mockers on thing for a while.

Putting everything back right now, and all appears to be back to normal, but need to install the Feed Shaft to check that the worm gears mesh properly, as some of the teeth on the gunmetal? gear have been graunched.

I will be doing a separate post on what I did & how, as I think it's important for all the owners of similar machines to know what oiling problems these machines have.

Took a while to come up with a suitable oiling solution, after rejecting many ideas, but I'm happy with the outcome having tested it on the bench.

I now need to sort out the write-up and annotate the photos, so hopefully will post sometime next week.

Geoff - BH my first post was 3rd August!

Well, my fear about that graunched worm gear has been proved right!

Started machining the first of the drilling machine vice hold down bolts yesterday and the problem reared its ugly head.

Manual feed is fine as expected, but power feed to the Saddle had the problem surface.

The graunched teeth on the worm gear are causing the Saddle to go through a stop/start soft banging routine, which is neither conducive to getting a good finish nor keeping my nerves intact!

If I continue using power feed, then more teeth will vanish, so I gave up and reverted to having my bare! left hand being hit by hot swarf. Gloves I hear someone shouting. Yes I know, but bl**dy brain still in flippin work to rule mode.

Now I've never cut a gear before, and the thought of even trying to machine a concave form worm gear is just a non-starter and fills me with the heeby jeebies, unless someone has a brilliant solution.

Many of you I am sure could turn one up without so much a batting an eyelid, but I'm not in that exhalted group unfortunately. I've got the books detailing how it's done, but it's all about confidence that is sadly lacking right now for me to even contemplate such a job.

Stupid me never bothered to measure the gear when the Apron was off, but, I do now know how to get the Apron off without too much hassle.

These things do try one at times.

Will try Waro for a spare.

Geoff - Not quite crying into my coffee. "Behave like a man!" from her indoors

The good news is that Warco have both the worm gear and Transmission Shaft in stock.

Makes me think that this is an all too popular replacement part.

Just waiting for the shock of delivered prices.

Geoff - Lazy day so should finish the BH600G write-up. I did say SHOULD though.

Never, ever wear gloves when operating machine tools; if the glove gets grabbed by the machine or work it'll drag you in willy-nilly. Spare gears may be available but I've never seen spare hands for sale.

The exact form of the teeth on a single enveloping worm wheel has been the subject of some debate on this forum , but it is possible to make one without knowing the precise tooth form. See this thread:

**LINK**

Regards,

Andrew

Andrew,

I take your point re gloves, but I don't wear any on my hand/s if they come anywhere near power driven rotating parts.

Saw that YouTube video of that young lad being pulled onto the lathe when a sleeve got snatched by the chuck whilst he was using emery to smooth a rod. His shirt was being pulled from his body before someone had the foresight to stop the machine. It happened in less than a blink of an eye.

Frightening and a salutary lesson.

I followed your threat Andrew, but its way way beyond my ability.

Geoff - Earl Grey cuppa after visit to the Doctor.

I found out that it wasn't beyond my abilities only by giving it a go.

Andrew

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s8/sh/547b885f-6a57-48c8-85e3-5f6b619c27e4/c7fc33ebb7ad0481b906d0d6a3f75eb5M

My write-up on removing the Apron and correcting the oiling problem is too long to post in one go, so rather than faff around trying to find the maximum numb of characters per post, I've uploaded it..

Geoff - Second vice bolt nearly done.

Edited By OuBallie on 07/11/2013 14:03:48

Edited By OuBallie on 07/11/2013 14:07:00

The Worm gear gave up the ghost whilst parting 22mm steel whilst making the vice hold-down bolts.

Those mangled teeth cried enough and vanished, causing the lathe power feed to stop then start.

I have also noticed tight spots when winding the Carriage which no doubt I'd due to the slight wobble that Gear Shaft I initially bent still has. Just couldn't get it all out.

New parts arrived this morning from Warco, having ordered them 1350h yesterday.

Now if I had access to a second lathe, I would have contemplated slicing the gear off and machining a new shaft.

I don't, so that's academic.

Cannot decide whether to fit the new parts tomorrow/weekend, or make a start on my version of doubleboost's Sky Hook, as the tripod is becoming a pain in the whatsit and getting in the way now that there is a perfect solution.

Geoff - RedBush to the rescue!

That Evernote link is horrendously long.

Something far more manageable:

http://tinyurl.com/nkqulby

Geoff - Made a start on the Sky Hook