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Taps & Dies

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Stub Mandrel03/10/2011 21:11:12
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4318 forum posts
291 photos
1 articles
> Blimey, 1/32" drills; that's a bit big for PCBs isn't it!
 
Eh? Just right for DIP and header pins. I use about a 65 for most other things, although I like smt because you don't need any holes at all!
 
Calmed down a bit now... although some tension earlier when my workshop electric was threatened with disconnection to allow some plastering to take place
 
Neil
Andrew Johnston04/10/2011 12:08:48
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7061 forum posts
719 photos
DIP? Oh, yes, DIPs, I remember them from the distance past. SMT is all very well, but when you get to BGAs you start to need lots of holes; makes the PCB look like a colander. For BGAs with a 0.8mm pitch you can just about get away with 0.3mm vias between balls and 4 thou track and gap. But when you get down to 0.5mm pitch you need 0.1mm vias in the pad; that's a small drill!
 
Regards,
 
Andrew
 
Tongue in cheek comments really; I have just finished designing and building an experimental circuit on Veroboard for a client using mostly DIP ICs. Essentially it was an IQ baseband receiver. If it works in the field I'll probably get the job of converting it to SMT and laying out a PCB for it - no vias needed!
Bogstandard04/10/2011 13:26:44
263 forum posts
Over the years, I have tried them all, even the real crappy carbon ones from a well known supplier who can supply almost any size to the model engineer, All I can say is you can soften them down a bit and use them to make other things out of. Almost all the taps in their full and relatively expensive kits cut oversize and the dies, undersize.
 
I have recently spent over a grand on tap & die sets, getting ready for my final fling, my other Presto tap & die carbon sets have lasted me nearly 30 years, they just don't make them like they used to, but they are now getting rather dull and beyond resharpening. I doubt if my new ones will have to last that long.
 
I now only use two places for my threading equipment, the first is Arc Euro, their HSS serial metric tap sets are fantastic value for the quality you get. The other is the Tap & Die company.
 
Their HQS ones look expensive, but in the long run, or if you buy in bulk, they will far outlast anything else for the price, especially if cutting a lot of stainless steel. They cut stainless as well as a normal tap will go through brass.
 
http://www.tapdie.com/
 
If I am doing a large production job, I buy the taps and dies in bulk, and they come out at around £2 to £3 each. I hardly ever break a tap or die, that is because I always use a very good quality high pressure lubricating oil, and at the first sound of a squeak during cutting, it is got rid of.
 
I suppose it all depends on how much threading you do.
If you only do the odd one now and again, then treat yourself to some HSS ones, but if like me, where I could be doing hundreds a day, then the quality jobbies are the way to go.
 
 
John
Adam Gregory 104/10/2011 17:11:17
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20 forum posts
11 photos
Hi all
 
Just a quick note.
I did try a 7.2 mm Hole Jason, but same result.
New tap arrived today and two hours later finshed the two bushes and they all screw
up nice and snug.
Just my luck to get a duff one.
Thanks for all the comments.
 
Adam
 
Cabeng05/10/2011 01:15:50
86 forum posts
59 photos
From Adam Gregory: "Just my luck to get a duff one."
 
I suspect you might have to be very lucky to actually get a good one!
 
I've put some photographs in an album, but be warned -these are not for the faint-hearted!
 
First picture - a montage of nested taps. One might reasonably expect that the threads on each of a set of taps would match, but t'ain't necessarily so. The carbon steel 5/32" x 40 taps do fit together beautifully, the same cannot be said for the metric taps, despite them being ground thread HSS from a supplier to industry, and not cheap. Additionally, they don't bear any resemblance to a metric thread profile.
 
Second picture - a thread cut in the lathe using a die in a tailstock die holder. Felt very strange when cutting the thread, subsequent inspection with a lens showed the thread WAS somewhat strange.
 
The third picture shows the die in question mounted on a properly cut thread - I think you can see why it cut a strange thread when held by the tailstock. Again, ground thread HSS.
 
Fourth picture - the teeth on some ground thread HSS dies, bought to go with the taps of the first picture, but a different supplier. Looks like they were ground with an angle grinder. Macbeth's witches probably had better teeth!
 
Lest you think this unusual, have a look at the BA dies in the fifth picture, another supplier. These are just 2 examples rom a 0 - 10 BA set of taps and dies - NONE were usable. The supplier offered to replace them - REPLACE THEM WITH WHAT? MORE RUBBISH? Oh yes, ground thread, HSS again.
 
And if you want the really bad news it's that, with the exception of the HSS taps, all the bad examples came from sources that have been mentioned on this thread. And I have examples from some that haven't yet appeared!
 
The first (and obvious) moral of the story is, of course, caveat emptor. The second is that if you're having difficulty with getting a good thread, your difficulties could well be caused by the tool you've been using. And the third is that paying more for a tap or die does not necessarily guarantee better quality.
 
Since those unsatisfactory experiences, I will only buy taps and dies with the manufacturer's name on the tool. If he doesn't put his name on what he makes... well, you can draw your own conclusions as to why he doesn't. That's the manufacturer's name, not the seller's. I stick to Apex (the 5/32" taps are Apex, from Kirjeng - never sold me a duff one yet), Presto, Dormer and Lyndon. And even those go under the microscope before being put into use.
 

Stub Mandrel07/10/2011 21:45:32
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4318 forum posts
291 photos
1 articles
Andrew,
 
We DO need an electronic topic so we can stop hijacking this one!
 
This weekend I'm starting on a project that will see me trying out some accelerometers. Being short sighted smt doesn't really worry me - I have managed to solder 0.5mm pitch SOIC by hand! But one of these accelerometers is an LGA package about 3mm by 5mm where, like BGA, about ten pads are completely hidden underneath!
 
I've also got a pair of FM RF solutions TX/RX433 modules, but they are so impressive I'll swap them for the simple AM units in my weather station

Neil
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