John Wood1 | 20/06/2009 15:11:25 |
![]() 116 forum posts | Hi Jan,
I have just received the CDI ignition system so will be modifying the cam to accept a magnet as soon as I can. Of course, by using a magnet and Hall effect device you can dispense with the cam entirely I guess, the magnet (4mm) could simply be fitted to the flywheel which would, of course, need to be re-made in brass.
Trouble is I run my own business and time is VERY short at the moment also, I will be away in France the first two weeks in July so it may be a while before I can get to grips with the various things to try. I will certainly not give up and will be sure to report back here when I have some results.
All the best, John
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MichaelR | 20/06/2009 16:30:19 |
![]() 528 forum posts 79 photos | John, Could you fix the magnet in a brass or alloy insert and fit that insert into the fly wheel, this would save you making a new flywheel and may get you up and running quicker.
I have a RLE Hit and Miss engine and have the magnet fitted to a alloy disc which is fitted to the half speed timing gear, see here hope this works !!
The ignition system is a buzz coil kit that I had to make up.
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John Ladlow | 20/06/2009 16:30:55 |
17 forum posts | Can I make a quick comment on using the CDI (or any Hall effect system). That is to make sure that the circuit is energised for long enough to charge up the system. The period is know as the dwell angle and basically in this case is the time that the magnet is opposite the sensor, so it depends on the size of magnet, the size of sensor and the rpm. The common mistake (don't ask) is to have the magnet rotating at too large a diameter resulting in a very week or no spark. I have found on a variety of engines that a diameter of around 20-25 mm gives good results. The problem these days is that the magnets are smaller than they used to be, so things are more critical.
The trick shown in the instructions for the TIM6 system is to use several magnets set adjacent to each other in an arc to give a longer period. I have used both the TIM6 and the CDI systems on a variety of engines and they both work well. The Hemingway Exiter coil is much better than the old Modelelctric coil was, so is well worth the money. It was recommended by Nemett some time ago and I can back that up by experience. Hopefully the comments will help someone avoid one of the pitfalls.
The other thing to be wary of is the power of these things, they bite!
John |
Jim Greethead | 13/02/2011 10:34:29 |
![]() 131 forum posts 8 photos | So, John, did you get the engine to run? I followed this thread last year with a view to building one of these as soon as I finished the current project.
I have now completed the pressure controlled engine and, like you, can not get it to run.
From your experience, I built in an RCEXL CDI from the start so I know the ignition is ok. I have checked the ignition timing and it fires at 5 degrees BTDC which seems about right.
I have checked the mixture using a Colortune plug and I can adust it from rich to lean through the correct "bunsen blue" and the engine fires but will not run unaided.
It is not a free running as Jan's, but it is certainly not excessively tight - about normal for an engine in fact.
Compression is 34 psi which is lower than I would hope, but not too bad.
Can you offer any advice?
Jim
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John Somers 1 | 13/02/2011 15:31:54 |
![]() 36 forum posts | Like Jim I have also recently completed building Jan's Simple Two stroke and like Jim and others on this forum, the engine steafastly refuses to run for longer than a few seconds. It will fire quite happily aided by the 'start' drill and on one occasion ran for something like 30 seconds. An account of my build is featured on my blog and whilst I am reluctant to abandon this project I am running short on possible solutions to this perplexing problem. The engine does seem to be very sensitive to the level of fuel in the carb and, more understandably, to fuel mixture. Mine appears to be happiest with a very rich mixture (air valve almost closed). This suggests air is being sucked in further down the induction line but I don't think this the case. I first tried a coil and micro switch type of contact breaker which produced a healthy fat blue spark but the micro switches didn't appear to have the stamina to be used for this purpose. In the end Ielected to replace with an RCEXL CDI unit in the hope that this may provide a magical cure. John |
Richard Parsons | 13/02/2011 16:25:57 |
![]() 645 forum posts 33 photos | Ah! Good Gentles all. I worked in an unheated shed in the U.K. Mine is now heated –by law’. I got a right royal growling from the Rendorsheg –rozzers or Old Bill to you and me- repairing a snow blower out of doors! I know that you are suffering from the COLD. Remember that it takes energy to vaporise petrol and the cold air will not do it to the required amount. I will bet that the ‘Good Hollander’ has a heated workshop. Most continentals recon that the English are as ‘mad as hatters’ and will work (for the love of the work) in places and temperatures that a continental would only be seen dead in! |
Jim Greethead | 14/02/2011 00:45:00 |
![]() 131 forum posts 8 photos | Can't be the cold, it is still summer out here on the fringes of civilisation. Temperatures in the mid to high 20s. Winter, of course, is a different matter.
I keep telling myself that it can't be all that hard. After all, it is just suck, squeeze, bang and blow. And two strokes are so simple. Aren't they?
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John Olsen | 14/02/2011 07:16:23 |
1294 forum posts 108 photos 1 articles | Hi James, Simple is not the same thing as reliable. I got a lot of fun out of watching my mates change plugs on their two stroke motorbikes. Size for size they might have been marginally faster, but they burnt more gas and used many more sparkplugs. Mine started much more reliably too. Hopefully you have not been too affected by the surplus of water over there recently? regards John |
Jan Ridders | 14/02/2011 09:16:25 |
![]() 24 forum posts 5 photos | Hello folks, here Jan Ridders.
I feel sad (and somewhat "guilty") to read about the persistent problems some of you have with letting my "pressure Controlled 2- stroke" run. Just today I took my engine out of the cabinet where it was "resting" for some months. I did that because of the recent postings and remarks here again. I put only only some droplets of petrol in the carburetor and cooled the carburetor down anywhere between zero and 5 degrees Celsius in my home freezer ( I used the separate carburetor that I use for all my experiments). I could start the engine very easiliy with some few pushes to the fly wheel by hand!
So, to invalidate some suppositions and remarks: - Although the vapor pressure will be lower at lower temperatures indeed this doesn't effect the working of this carburetor identifiable; - The level of the petrol in the tank is of no influence also. At least this is true while using fresh petrol. I will add an extensive trouble shoot part on the page for this engine on my web site within two days from now; I will report that here if it is ready. Because there are some changes on the present drawing plan compared to the plan in ME I think it is advisable to use my most recent plan that I will send you immediately by mail if wanted: [email protected] or [email protected] The most important change is an improvement of the ball valves making them less critical. If there was a problem with this engine the valves were the reason in almost all cases according to my experience.
I hope that something on my trouble shoot list will solve your problem because this engine is easy to make and to start in my humble opinion and experience.
So long and don't give up (sorry for my limited English).
Jan Ridders
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Richard Parsons | 14/02/2011 16:41:14 |
![]() 645 forum posts 33 photos | Jan I fear that the whole engine has to be cold. I and my mates seldom were able to fly our control-liners on a nice clear crisp winter’s afternoon. Our little CI engines just would not start. In Ted’s shed which had an electric fire they would start after they and us warmed up a bit. There is a way to settle if the problem is fuel or ignition. It is to remove the plug and place a small (birthday cake) candle very close to the plug hole. You then spin the engine over. After a few revs if she is getting a good mixture she should give a ‘poof’ or two. No poof - no fuel mixture. Jan’s spark indicator should tell you about the spark and might well improve the internal spark’. I have had big fat blue sparks on the old Villers two strokes but they just would run. Generaly it was a Duff plugs James - as Jan says these engines must be free running as "as driven by the wind". They have very little power and are probably only just self sustaining. Perhaps a little more 'lapping' would not come a miss. |
Jim Greethead | 14/02/2011 23:02:50 |
![]() 131 forum posts 8 photos | John Somer's engine is much prettier than mine. After hearing of his problems, I took a few short cuts (sorry Jan) in regard to the purely decorative parts of Jan's beautiful design. If I get it running, it might get a coat of paint.
Thank you Jan, for your continuing interest in our attempts to replicate your beautiful work. I would be really interested to know how you made the teflon bearing so smooth and yet still sealing. I took a lot of care with this but it is still not as free-running as your engine.
And I am very interested to hear about the ball valve. I assumed that it was just another version of the reed valve on two stroke engines but it seems that yours is different. Can you explain the difference please?
And it can't be the cold. Yesterday was about 23 degrees and today is forecast to be the same.
Richard: I have not previously thought of using a birthday candle like that. But I have been using a Colortune transparent spark plug that lets me see the spark and the flame in the cylinder. The flame colour varies with the mixture from yellow (rich) through bunsen blue (about right) to almost white (lean). I will try to get some video of it to put up so all can see,
I did take some video showing how free-running the engine is (or isn't ) but I hesitate to put it up because Jan will see the changes I made to accomodate my limited skills.
Thanks everyone, I will keep you posted
Jim
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Jan Ridders | 15/02/2011 07:54:46 |
![]() 24 forum posts 5 photos | Hello James,
If you send me a mail I will send you the present drawing plan with the improved ball valves with it; mail to: [email protected]
The change is that the balls are in a kind of small cavity on the connecting pin(?) above the ball so that the ball only have a free space of some tenth's of a millimeter in both vertical and horizontal direction. That avoids floating so the ball falls back on its seat in time.
Don't bother about the cosmetics of the engine, I am not that good as well. I saw some replica's that look like jewels. The most important thing is that it runs.
Friendly greetings from Holland, Jan
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Jim Greethead | 15/02/2011 09:20:37 |
![]() 131 forum posts 8 photos | Thank you Jan, I will certainly send an email and look forward to seeing the changes.
I spent a lot of time today trying to reduce the friction in the engine and I am convinced that it now as good as I can make it. It is still not as free-running as yours.
I also took some more Colortune video which shows that even with the correct mixture, the engine does not fire consistently. So I am wondering if the problem is the ball floating as you suggest.
I also have not fitted the exhaust to the engine and maybe that is part of the problem. I know that the inertia of the gases is important in two strokes and that the exhaust can have a big effect. So I will do that next.
Jim
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Jan Ridders | 15/02/2011 16:57:25 |
![]() 24 forum posts 5 photos | Hello Jim,
I just send the drawing plan as a reply on your mail.
The exhaust silencer for sure can influence the process for most (industrial) 2-stroke engines, but not with this model; it damps the noise somewhat but in fact it is more cosmetic than functional. As a matter of fact you better leave it untill the engine is running well and than mount it to see if there is any effect, which I think is hardly or not the case. Friendly greetings and success,
Jan
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Richard Parsons | 15/02/2011 17:31:46 |
![]() 645 forum posts 33 photos | Jan - I have messed about with 2 Strokes for many years. The exhaust system can be very important. It can help to both scavenge spent gas and draw in fresh mixture (the Kaaden effect). Some designs will not run properly unless there is some back pressure which prevents part (sometimes a major part) of the new charge escaping. |
Jan Ridders | 15/02/2011 18:03:16 |
![]() 24 forum posts 5 photos | Hello Richard,
I am fully aware of the importance of exhaust systems to optimize the flushing process with 2-strokes to avoid loosing unburned gas mix on the one hand and to avoid remaining burning gasses in the cylinder ("poisening") on the other hand. But if the pison is well adjusted relative to the exhaust opening in the cylinder all my 2-stroke models run very well with or without a muffler. For sure it will be possible to improve the efficiency but that is not important in case of these kind of models if you ask me.
So you are right in principle but this cannot be the real reason for the problems mentioned in this discussion about this model. Thanks for your reaction, Jan
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Jim Greethead | 15/02/2011 21:42:41 |
![]() 131 forum posts 8 photos | I have now posted video of the Colortune plug test on YouTube at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEL06n7X_RM
I just hope this link works. I am not sure how else to do it. Comments and advice will be most welcome.
Jim
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Jim Greethead | 15/02/2011 21:44:47 |
![]() 131 forum posts 8 photos | Sorry about that, it looks like the link does not work. But it is there if you go to AussieJimG and look for Debra Colortune.
Jim
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Jens Eirik Skogstad | 15/02/2011 23:23:34 |
![]() 400 forum posts 22 photos | Posted by James Greethead on 15/02/2011 21:42:41:
I have now posted video of the Colortune plug test on YouTube at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEL06n7X_RM
I just hope this link works. I am not sure how else to do it. Comments and advice will be most welcome.
Jim
It fire in the combustion camber, but it will not make a working pressure on the piston by combustion gas. Probably poor compression, poor fit between piston/sleeve who are too leaky, then the combustion gas is blowing out of between piston and sleeve. The other problem can be retarded ignition angle.
Increase compression and igniton angle a bit before TDC.
Edited By Jens Eirik Skogstad on 15/02/2011 23:24:25 |
Jim Greethead | 16/02/2011 02:25:48 |
![]() 131 forum posts 8 photos | Thank you Jens, I am glad you found the video. I took the following measurements just before I did the test:
Exhaust port opening 162 degrees around BDC
Transfer port opening 112 degrees around BDC
Compression 25 psi
Ignition timing 2 degrees BTDC
The port openings were measured on the rim of the flywheel with steady pressure on the piston crown. They are probably withing 5 degrees either way. I can't believe how many different values I measured, those are the best.
Compression is very low but the piston fits closely in the bore. One reason for the low compression is that the piston has a 6 mm radius fillet all around the crown which limits the minimum volume at TDC.
The ignition angle was measured with a timing light at cranking speed. Ignition is by RCEXL CDI which has electronic advance.
Jim
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