'Desktop' lathe

Dear Brian, I too have been researching for industrial quality, not very much available in small machines nowadays unless you can afford the likes of Golmatic mills or Schaublin lathes. I have communicated with an owner of Wabeco machines and considers them satisfactory. However he and others have had some disappointing issues with the electrics of these machines and the disinterested attitude of Wabeco in Germany. Another Wabeco owner more or less warned me off them because of this. Unfortunately they are comparatively rare and it is difficult to make a definitive overall assessment because of this. Industrial quality is just that. Thus, it is expensive relative to hobbyist equipment. To balance this initial cost there is the likelihood that it will have a much lower depreciation rate than Chinese machines and should have a longer life as well as providing assured accuracy. The 'tribal' chant is to buy the BIGGEST you can get or afford. I'm not of this school. My personal opinion is to select a machine that has the capacity you NEED, now and for the reasonably foreseeable future. A quite small machine can be a very advantageous piece of equipment for small components especially if it is accurate. I regard the purchase of a lathe that can turn a 300mm flywheel when all the other machining would otherwise be comfortably done on a lathe half the size as unnecessary. For unusual items it is sensible to get it done by someone else with the appropriate equipment. Optimum machines appear on paper to be satisfactory, they are Chinese but supposedly to German specs and one would hope QC. They have only recently been made available in Australia so there are no comments by experienced users here yet. Nearly all the really worthwhile info I have received has been through personal communication with experienced owners, for which I am eternally grateful, unfortunately forums are a bit too public and sometimes owners aren't too keen to broadcast less than flattering comments about things. Likewise the hobbies magazines etc. are probably constrained in proffering serious critiques of equipment that their advertisers sell. Like all research and choices you have to be discerning. Know what your needs are first, and then commit the resources to achieve it. Good luck in your quest. Paul Gough.

1) In my slightly younger years, I put an old beach towel over one shoulder, threw a Compact-8 lathe (without tailstock) over my shoulder and took it up to the attic of a house in The Netherlands that I was renting. Steep, uncarpeted stairs, easier than getting someone to help.

2) I picked up another Compact-8, well equipped, for equivalent pricing to a local supplier flogging the 7x lathes.

These lathes are really quite well made, and I enjoy using them.

3) The Sherline lathes do look interesting; maybe for an interior workshop one could get one of these?

John.

It's not as simple as that Paul. People may go for larger machines because they need the capacity and also because they want an industrial machine - which the chinese also make. The depreciation on industrial machines is high. The rest really fall into the category of big boys toys which is why you will see statements like light duty, hobby use, not suitable for continuous use - what ever that means. I've been known to use my machine daily for long periods for several days on the trot. Is that continuous ? I generally don't make terribly complicated things either. The quoted motor powers are interesting as well. Some one on here currently seems to be having problems with 450w. How on earth did my Boxford manage on 375? Not an usual value for a Myford either. In fact 1/4 hp can do a lot. Electronic variable speed as used on the hobby range is a cheaper option than others for all sorts of reasons. One not obvious aspect is more in a container and lower weight compared with back gear and countershaft arrangements. Going on sewing machine data brushless might offer some advantages but they spec input power as well - not what comes out of the motor. Gear head chinese lathes are also available - even hardened and ground which should mean that they just hum rather than make a lot of noise like the small lathes that have a metal speed reduction gear fitted to replace the plastic one. Gearhead lathes weigh and cost more but are more compact than back gear and countershaft arrangements, I'd guess that is a major advantage to importers.

I too have been looking at smaller machines. Wabeco - is that precision really. I would say no for this size of lathe because the tolerance of parts that need precision get tighter and tighter as the size goes down. Actually these figures don't look that much better than Warco's measured ones - if those are correct. This particular machine states 1.4kw - will it be - no, not in conventional machine tool terms. It does have some better design aspects but even those could be improved. They do provide a sensible reduction in speed via a belt drive which will give more torque. Others do too but some use a very noisy gear. Noise is interesting. This Wabeco can get loud enough to need ear defenders if used in a work place. Depreciation compared with others - massive but held up by current prices - just like the rest. As smaller "real" machines in some ways are in shorter supply resale values of the cheap end chinese are much higher than the were a few years ago. As people are starting to break lathes down and sell the bits as they make more money this aspect may get worse as time goes by. I'd guess they are wasting their time and will make less.

Opti - the German retailers came up with the bright idea of stating local spindle run out a long long time ago. Trouble is in terms of over all accuracy it's meaningless. They look rather pay more and get less but perhaps the hidden surfaces are machined to a better standard and maybe they use hardened bearings. Maybe the chinese generally do. At one time the cheap end definitely didn't. One of the aspects I find odd is no signs of screw cutting indicators unless I have missed something. It's easy to get a mini lathe that comes with one even for metric threads. Their baby lathe has the same open thread on the compound slide as the others. At a certain weight they suddenly mention that the bed casting is matured for at least 6 months. Rolls Royce used to leave their engine blocks lying around for several years. All real lathe manufacturers have done that sort of thing as it's the best way of destressing castings. People who make there own tooling are sometimes painfully aware of this aspect. I have a home made rotary table. Several years after making it I did a little bit more machining on it which involved removing a strap - the casting cracked. It still works as it should but illustrates why it's better to fabricate.The very nature of cast iron varies as well. The term can cover all sorts of variations as can induction hardening.

The biggest problem in this area is that in the hobby area people might conclude that they shouldn't buy a new lathe at all. Some people are perfectly happy with them as they come. Some regard them as a casting kit and fix them which is likely to involve some hand work or further machining of the parts. Some cure work problems with emery and a hand file. There is a need to be realistic or say go buy a properly reconditioned or brand new Schaublin but even those have their but aspects as all machines do. Really for some one who is starting out it's probably best to go out and buy. Eventually some one who does that will realise what the problems really are and if not happy fix it or sell it and buy another. If it's going to be fixed it would be best to make it worth while doing which I am afraid will have it's machine weight aspects. When a lathe is actually used the need for other bits and pieces crop up. Many will of use in the future but parts for the actual lathe probably wont be so in some respects lathes that come equipped with the usual work holding bits and pieces are a better option. At one time I understand some retailers were removing these from the boxes from china and selling them separately. They generally don't now.

To be continued.

John

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I managed to sum this all up to some one on an astro forum. It's a bit like telescope mounts and even telescopes themselves. Mounts like the EQ1 and even the EQ2 and 4 can disappoint very quickly as can many telescopes. This doesn't stop them from being sold or bought. He knew exactly what I meant and the thread was closed and he decided to buy a sensibley sized chinese machine within his budget and get some real experience on the basis that selling it later means costs will be relatively low and if for instance he decides to buy a used machine which can be a mine field in it's own right he will be capable of trying it out. If another new one he will be in a far better position to realise what he needs and what the machines can do. This area is a lot like the astro one. Even throwing more money at it doesn't always achieve anything. In many areas brand names attract prices that don't really offer any significant advantage over others. This may be true in Wabeco's case it might not. They certainly have more power and in some respects a more sensible design but are they really that much better? You'd have to buy one to find out. Actually I would have my doubts in terms of really justifying current prices but if marginally better then they can charge a lot more if the want.

Maybe a boxford test result might help. A machine to this spec now would probably cost over £10k. Size would partly be immaterial. Take a look at the price of a small Schaublin which will reflect the increased precision of small lathes. I've used a DSG true to better than 0.0015" over around 5ft centres - truly spectacular, price astronomic. Heavy as it needs to be to even hold that sort of accuracey.

John

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No time to check my often weird typo's - wife calls.

Brian, Cant help with the choice of lathe, but FYI the normal super imposed floor loading [domestic ] is 1.5kN

[ 150 Kg ] / m².

In case I didnt make it clear, that is the minimum loading that a domestic floor has to be designed to withstand.

[ at least here in Scotland ] This of course only applies to "new builds " Regs elsewhere may differ..

John - I had to get help to lift my Compact 8 onto its stand, but I have a back problem and daren't risk injury.

I picked up my Compact 8 for less than I paid for my previous lathe, a Hobbymat. I certainly know which one I prefer!

I have owned a Sherline, with lots of accessories, but while it's a very capable little lathe, it does have its limitations.

Hi Brian, Just to make sure I am not misunderstood, I want to make it clear that I was keeping all my discussion within the context of your needs, i.e. reasonably small, reasonably light weight and a somewhat portable machine. Roughly speaking 100mm centre height and around 100kg maximum. This is why I mentioned the Wabeco's, the '2000' is 70kg roughly, ( or the 4000 if you prefer prismatic beds ), with satisfactory accuracy and would hold some of its value for much longer than the much cheaper equipment. Yes they are 'eye watering' relative to the cost of other offerings and I posit them at the upper limit of anyones budget range. However if you don't want to go through a succession of purchases to get to what you want then sometimes it is more economical to go for the more expensive. I have no biases for brands or countries of origin, your required accuracy and budget are likely to be large factors in decision making as are mine. John W1 provided a long more general discussion and did show a very helpful test sheet from Boxford. It is useful to study this as it will provide a baseline from which to asses other machines, but it will probably be hard to get this sort of data from a lot of suppliers. Paul Gough.