Member postings for paul gough

Hi Brian, Just to make sure I am not misunderstood, I want to make it clear that I was keeping all my discussion within the context of your needs, i.e. reasonably small, reasonably light weight and a somewhat portable machine. Roughly speaking 100mm centre height and around 100kg maximum. This is why I mentioned the Wabeco's, the '2000' is 70kg roughly, ( or the 4000 if you prefer prismatic beds ), with satisfactory accuracy and would hold some of its value for much longer than the much cheaper equipment. Yes they are 'eye watering' relative to the cost of other offerings and I posit them at the upper limit of anyones budget range. However if you don't want to go through a succession of purchases to get to what you want then sometimes it is more economical to go for the more expensive. I have no biases for brands or countries of origin, your required accuracy and budget are likely to be large factors in decision making as are mine. John W1 provided a long more general discussion and did show a very helpful test sheet from Boxford. It is useful to study this as it will provide a baseline from which to asses other machines, but it will probably be hard to get this sort of data from a lot of suppliers. Paul Gough.

Dear Brian, I too have been researching for industrial quality, not very much available in small machines nowadays unless you can afford the likes of Golmatic mills or Schaublin lathes. I have communicated with an owner of Wabeco machines and considers them satisfactory. However he and others have had some disappointing issues with the electrics of these machines and the disinterested attitude of Wabeco in Germany. Another Wabeco owner more or less warned me off them because of this. Unfortunately they are comparatively rare and it is difficult to make a definitive overall assessment because of this. Industrial quality is just that. Thus, it is expensive relative to hobbyist equipment. To balance this initial cost there is the likelihood that it will have a much lower depreciation rate than Chinese machines and should have a longer life as well as providing assured accuracy. The 'tribal' chant is to buy the BIGGEST you can get or afford. I'm not of this school. My personal opinion is to select a machine that has the capacity you NEED, now and for the reasonably foreseeable future. A quite small machine can be a very advantageous piece of equipment for small components especially if it is accurate. I regard the purchase of a lathe that can turn a 300mm flywheel when all the other machining would otherwise be comfortably done on a lathe half the size as unnecessary. For unusual items it is sensible to get it done by someone else with the appropriate equipment. Optimum machines appear on paper to be satisfactory, they are Chinese but supposedly to German specs and one would hope QC. They have only recently been made available in Australia so there are no comments by experienced users here yet. Nearly all the really worthwhile info I have received has been through personal communication with experienced owners, for which I am eternally grateful, unfortunately forums are a bit too public and sometimes owners aren't too keen to broadcast less than flattering comments about things. Likewise the hobbies magazines etc. are probably constrained in proffering serious critiques of equipment that their advertisers sell. Like all research and choices you have to be discerning. Know what your needs are first, and then commit the resources to achieve it. Good luck in your quest. Paul Gough.

Thanks John, At last a bar bed users comment. The ones you show are appear to be 'industrial strength' and so much heavier than the little Wabeco D2000E I am considering. However it is nice to hear of, (and see), an example of this type of lathe which seems to confirm there is nothing inherently lacking in the design. Paul Gough.

If I was to make the 17000 klm flight to your region I would probably find it more fruitful proceeding to Germany and Wabeco's showroom to get a 'hands on' with their mills as well. I reside in the upside down world of the Antipodes, hence my hope for a positive 'virtual experience' in answer to my query. Paul Gough.

Thanks again Jason for the 'tip off' about the 'elusive owner' and I have registered for MEM and am awaiting approval to enter into discussion. I have had a reply from a German modeller I correspond with and he asked for comments on their forums. No owner replies, but unspecified "concerns" about the bar bed lathes with stated preferences for the cast bed Wabeco models or Optimum branded lathes. Whether the concerns are perceived rather than real will only ever be resolved by discussion with an experienced user, (other than me flying to Germany to test one personally). I find it hard to believe that a lathe of German manufacture so specific about accuracy and cutting capacity would risk supplying a design that was deficient. There is no doubt that the lathe is different to most, and thus attracts some scepticism about rigidity and convenience of use with its centre screw feed and only fitted with one auto feed rate. However if the fears are unfounded, then this lightweight, accurate and quite powerful little lathe would suit my purposes amply. I hope MEM approves my registration so I can ask the elusive owner for an appraisal. Regards to all who have shown an interest. Paul Gough.

Edited By paul gough on 01/07/2015 12:02:22

Thanks Jason for your effort looking up some German model engineers sites. I have seen a couple where they show their workshops and there seems to be a liking for Optimum lathes and mills and I agree there are some very nice stationary steam models as examples of their work. I considered the issue regarding the saddle drive and yes I agree for most users rack and pinion saddle would be less tedious, however, I for the most part, would be making quite small components on this lathe and don't think it an issue for me. With regard to machine acquisition I would not buy one without at least laying my hands on it and manipulating it, my enquiries are part of my research into a short list of machines and an appeal to users opinions can help guide the process. Paul Gough.

Thanks for the German mag. tip Jason. I had a look but I could not find anything. I have used Google translate in German before and found it wanting particularly with technical stuff, however using it and other web translators gets you by in a round about way. The old story, stuff that's free often has limitations. I wonder if Pro Machine Tools has ever sold any of these bar beds in the UK. Paul Gough

Thanks for the replies so far. However as my initial request was for comments from experienced users I would have thought it obvious that I have researched these lathes as extensively as I can. This includes the manufacturers website and a couple of videos on youtube where a 3000 has been set up for CNC. As to lack of rigidity, I can only go by Wabeco's claim that 5mm cuts are possible. Again my initial post indicated the size of likely models, I am aiming at a compact quality workshop, i.e. small bench lathe, vertical mill, bench grinder and a high speed sensitive drill. I don't consider the price of Wabeco outlandish, if you want an accurate quality item that is meant to last a life time then there is always a premium to pay. If I was awash in funds I would probably go for a 102 Schaublin but I don't have tens of thousands to spend and in any case it would be absurd for my usage. Just to reiterate my usage, pre. 1850 steam locos, therefore small. If I ever want a large dia. item machined it is sensible to get someone with the appropriate equipment to undertake one off jobs. Most of the work on a steam loco can be done on near any quality lathe but this is not so true for the machining of a model diesel engines components. Also, as I said, I like the FEEL of a quality item, any tradesman would know what I mean. Hope there is someone out there in the English speaking world who is an experienced user of these bar bed lathes and is prepared to comment meaningfully on them. Paul Gough.

As far as I know the German manufacturer Wabeco uses belt drives for feed and screwcutting on their bar and prismatic bed lathes. Speed range is claimed to be 30 to 2300 RPM on the 4inch models. Would love to know peoples experience with these lathes but they appear to be non existent in the English speaking world if my post requesting comments by users is anything to go by. Paul Gough.

I cannot find any comments by users of these bar bed lathes and would like to hear from users about their experience with it and their opinion of them for model work up to small 5" gauge locos etc. I prefer simple manual machines that are also examples of quality engineering. I like the feel of a quality item in the hand but also the potential of accurate machining. The projects in mind when I set up my workshop range from; pre. 1850 steam locos to hopefully making a working example of an Alco diesel engine as fitted to locomotives. I was a diesel loco maintenance instructor and troubleshooter. I admit it is many decades since doing any machining, actually not since my apprenticeship, but I remember the sense of achievement in using really ancient and simple machines to get accurate results. Really hoping to hear something from an experienced user of these apparently uncommon lathes.