Member postings for julian atkins

I would second the Don Young 'Hunslette' design, and I don't know why 'Durhambuilder' dismisses it.

It is a huge lump in 5"g, and still quite a huge lump in 3.5", and I speak as someone who did 'Linda' FR 2-4-0TT in 3.5"g.

Another possibility is 'Charles' brother of 'Linda' and 'Blanche' which is I think marketed by Blackgates.

Martin Evans' 'Conway' is a freelance design with lots of errors, and the valve gear is deficient, and it neither something or nothing.

Don Young's 'Hunslette' is a prototypical example of the Quarry Hunslets.

Cheers,

Julian

Hello P84R,

The first thing I would do is to take off the water gauge fittings and check that their passageways and the areas around inside the boiler are free of obstructions that might give a false water gauge reading.(Check also that the bottom fitting and bush does not protrude too far into the water space).

You might also be getting priming when the loco is being worked hard, as others have suggested. Also you do not state whether the safety valves are lifting as you go up your incline. You can get a localised pressure drop in a boiler that can promote priming, as opposed to priming being caused by dirty water or water with some oil in it.

Water carry over to the cylinders is quite a serious problem and can cause damage to the cylinders and motion, if not increased wear, and ought to be properly investigated.

If there is a water carry over, you need to shut the regulator and open the cylinder drain cocks.

Do a search online for LNER pacific 'Blue Peter' and the disaster at Durham.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Martin,

You deserve a fuller reply from me in response to Jeff Dayman's post.

My own 3.5"g GWR King to the Jackson design required new superheaters, and the LBSC type will be replaced with stainless elements extending the full length of the firebox. It will also have a redesigned smokebox draughting kindly done for me by Jos Koopmans.

(If the Perrier drawings follow the GWR drawings for the original single chimney design they will be deficient, or at least not ideal).

The GWR King boiler is an elegant thing and very nuanced and complicated.

A simple butt welded joint to the throatplate and barrel will IMHO reduce water circulation at quite a vital point, and the butt welded joints elsewhere will rob the boiler of it's external appearance, unless well covered up by the cleading.

I am assuming the tubes, being TIG welded on your boiler, are thicker than normal? A recent Commercial boiler on the modeleng proboards site (for Don Young's 'Doncaster' ) has some TIG welded joints but the tubes are silver soldered in. It looks the part, and is clearly extremely well made.

If you have cast iron cylinders etc and piston valve liners and piston valves with cast iron rings, you won't have any problem with full length radiant superheaters in the firebox, and I have no hesitation in fitting them as such to my own 3.5"g example with cast gunmetal cylinders and slide valves.

Quite a few club boiler inspectors haven't a clue how to deal with a TIG welded copper boiler, or for that matter steel welded boilers. Quite a few haven't a clue how to deal with all silver soldered copper boilers.

Cheers,

Julian

Edited By julian atkins on 25/06/2019 23:29:15

Edited By julian atkins on 25/06/2019 23:29:54

Simon is quite correct with stainless radiant elements. Though you provide no mention of cylinder and piston valve material, and design.

Seems to me your 5"g GWR King boiler is of rather novel construction. I hope your club boiler inspector is happy with it all. It is a very complicated boiler to make.

Cheers,

Julian

I'm about 7 minutes drive from Blackwood.

Cheers,

Julian

How about Jeremy Fisher (Beatrix Potter), and Kiki in 'Hector's House'?

Cheers,

Julian

My own experience is that silver steel injector 'D' bits, especially the 9 degree taper ones, last about 5 injector cones then become useless and blunt. The 13 or 12 degree ones are somewhat more durable.

I have proved that the 6 degree taper is not required on small injectors of 12 oz per minute delivery on the delivery cone, and 9 degrees will do the necessary, contrary to what has been written.

HSS reamers are the way to go if you want to make lots of these gadgets.

Boiler Bri (Brian) must dismiss any thought that the LBSC drawings and descriptions will produce a working miniature injector except by luck.

It is not a black art. Eric Rowbottham described via Basil Palmer the smaller injectors in ME around 1976, and Laurie Lawrence described his own 'standard' design was it 1977? The Laurie Lawrence articles were repeated around 1982. Derek Brown's book is indispensable and available via TEE publishing.

Cheers,

Julian

Thank you all for your posts.

Yes, it has been pointed out to me that Lowe died in the 1944 so obviously my memory is faulty.

I can recall 4th Officer Joseph Boxhall's mentions in ME, though I am missing the relevant section of ME from around April 1962 - though have read it many years ago - and it wasn't Boxhall I am recalling, unless I am very mistaken again.

A search of Titanic in the archive comes up with a number of bits about Boxhall, but I still do have a clear recollection from something at sometime by Lowe. Retiring to the North Wales coast . Boxhall retired to Christchurch/Bournemouth.

Thanks again.

Cheers,

Julian

I have a very clear recollection of 5th Officer Harold Lowe of the Titanic having something published in ME in the 1950s.

The online index hasn't helped to find this again,

My own MEs are substantial but have a few gaps but I have previously (some many years ago) read all the bound volumes.

Does anyone else recall such a contribution, and if they can please help please, especially with the details and perhaps the actual text?

Many thanks in anticipation,

Julian

Hi Stew,

I have a bit of experience making new steam cones for the Gordon Chiverton vertical injectors so am quite familiar with them.

A vertical injector will work no better than a horizontal injector, and has the disadvantage that the gap in the combining cone cannot be accessed for inspection and cleaning. The Gordon Chiverton design also has the added disadvantage that the delivery cone cannot be removed.

I have never fitted vertical injectors to my own locos.

It is not widely known why Don Young marketed only the vertical Gordon Chiverton injectors for many years. Don Young started his own business around 1971 selling boiler fitting and injectors, and published his vertical injector design for 'County Carlow' in ME in 1970 (which incidentally doesn't work).

He had a gentleman's agreement with Arthur Grimmett, both on the Isle of Wight, that he would not make horizontal injectors that Arthur made in the thousands for Reeves and Kennions.

Don Young via Gordon Chiverton only started making and marketing horizontal injectors after Arthur retired.

As you say, there is a lot more work involved in making a vertical injector (especially of the Gordon Chiverton vertical type), plus I have outlined the disadvantages if they need cleaning or dismantling.

Cheers,

Julian

Edited By julian atkins on 19/02/2019 20:44:27

Brian (BDH) above refers to what is sometimes known as the 'cotton reel' method, which is highly recommended.

I have always used 601 loctite for wheels to axles, but I think that 638 is regarded as better if the axles get hot due to being under a firebox on a loco. I have not the slightest idea whether 601 is still available, or whether 638 has been re-numbered. I used 601 because I could get a bottle free from Canton Works stores if I explained what it was for.

The last time I built a miniature loco with an axle underneath the ashpan it had press fits for the wheels.

Cheers,

Julian

"Lawrie said he always had to open up LBSC's cones to get them to feed"

Nick, where did Laurie ever state this?

Derek A G Brown's book is the way to go, published by TEE, as referenced and linked by Simon. My own copy is heavily covered in pencilled notes cross referencing and adding to my own rather large file of my own experiments and construction notes.

A ward of warning - miniature ejectors are rather forgiving. Miniature injectors are a different kettle of fish altogether and require considerable precision and a lot more tooling.

Good luck!

Cheers,

Julian

"Lawrie said he always had to open up LBSC's cones to get them to feed"

Nick, where did Laurie ever state this?

Derek A G Brown's book is the way to go, published by TEE, as referenced and linked by Simon. My own copy is heavily covered in pencilled notes cross referencing and adding to my own rather large file of my own experiments and construction notes.

A ward of warning - miniature ejectors are rather forgiving. Miniature injectors are a different kettle of fish altogether and require considerable precision and a lot more tooling.

Good luck!

Cheers,

Julian

It is the late Roy Amesbury's 3.5"g Brit, and Roy described it in ME in 1966 or 1967. A search of the Index will provide the relevant MEs.

I cannot recall from memory whether Roy explained the 'oil - no oil' gauge, but he later described for his later GWR loco making all his own pressure gauges around 1972 and a duplex brake valve gauge. He later described his GWR President loco around 1982 with his homemade gauges. Roy worked at Rolls Royce in Derby.

Hope the above is some interest.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Gary,

Well done! I enjoyed your clip! Nice to see someone make their own boiler! And Jolly Good Fun too!

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Martin,

I have read your paper with much interest, and having had a sort of preview by our mutual 'Speedy' builder friend of your correspondence with him (not Bill Hall who is no longer with us).

3 superheater elements can be fed into and silver soldered direct to a plain wet header considerably simplifying the pipework in the smokebox. With 3 x 1/4" dia return bend type superheaters in 3 x1" dia OD superheater flues I have found this more than adequate in a medium sized 5"g loco. The whole superheater assembly and wet header can easily be removed via the smokebox door opening if ever this were required.

I have also used 2 x 1/4" dia superheater elements of both LBSC type and radiant stainless type in 2 x 3/4" OD superheater flues and 2 x 3/4" OD superheater flues on smaller boilers, with again the wet header pipework being very simple and easy to remove if required.

A double flanged throatplate of traditional type is a must IMHO as this aids water circulation, with a generous flange to to the throatplate where it abuts the rear of the barrel, and the barrel lower half can be belted to suit and relieved locally after silver soldering.

One of my earliest experiences was with LBSC's Maisee design. There is the combustion chamber boiler in the construction book with 4 superheater flues, and the much simpler 2 superheater flue design of 1936 with no combustion chamber. I can state quite categorically that the original 1936 simpler boiler was as good if not better in steam production when compared to the later construction book complicated design with combustion chamber.

In the above examples, both had LBSC type superheater elements.

The 1936 design with just 2 superheater flues made of radiant type out of stainless would be something else yet again!

I have always taken a keen interest in smokebox draughting. In my first loco I departed from the drawings quite considerably for the smokebox innards. I have never been a slave to drawings.

It takes a lot of skill in miniature to fire a sloping narrow grate. And a lot of clubs have coal nothing like the quality I remember of in the 1980s and what was carefully acquired or stocked up from the late 1980s in certain clubs. I have Welsh steam coal in my coal shed that dates back 30 years and some huge lumps from Rhymney depot that date back to pre 1964.

Cheers,

Julian

Hopper's British Pathe clip shows the GWR King wheelsets at Swindon being balanced.

One would think that with all of Churchward's experience of the French Compounds he might have got the balancing of his big locos right, but no one has yet mentioned hammer blow, and the restraints imposed by the Civil Engineer.

So, even at Swindon balancing was a compromise, not helped by the divided drive on the 4 cylinder locos, and each pair of outer and inside cylinders working 180 degrees out of phase.

Harold Holcroft's 'Locomotive Adventure' Vol 2 describes how Ashford had only parallel balances, and wheelsets being send to Swindon to be balanced on the machine seen in Hopper's clip. The net result was that the Swindon machine gave no better results compared to Ashford. (Incidentally this shows that what Swindon did was not kept secret, and was shared with at least the SECR and SR).

Anyone who has set up a miniature locomotive chassis and run it on air at speed will be aware of the considerable fore and aft vibration, which has always indicated to me that balancing 3.5"g and 5"g miniature locomotives ought to require much greater attention. And as we don't have to worry about hammer blow, even more reason to do so.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Gary,

The proper repair would be to thoroughly clean and flux generously all over and re-silversolder the leaking tube. This is not difficult to do on a boiler like yours, though expanding the tube is with hindsight is not the correct procedure, and you will probably not get a penetrating joint, but you should aim to form a generous fillet. A loop of copper wire around the protruding end of the tube might assist in this.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi John,

I seem to remember something about the expansion links being difficult to assemble in the expansion link trunnions if built as per the drawings and 'words and music'.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Nigel,

I did not know you were building a 5"g O2 to Don Young's design. I have made the SR type coupling so if you want any details happy to assist, plus I have the original drawings for the Drummond chimney that show that Don got this detail quite wrong.

Cheers,

Julian