Member postings for julian atkins

Thank you JasonB for those very interesting pics. Thank you for taking the trouble to upload the pics etc which were of great interest to me.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Ron,

I think the faulty valve is the snifting valve from your description. Generally they dont ever cause a problem. I have had not had a snifting valve cause any problems on various locos in over 30 years.

Unfortunately I was called into work earlier than my planned shift so didnt have an opportunity to get to the Post Office.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Mike,

Reeves do the Don Young 5"g LMS Black 5 design. It is pointless attempting to scale up an old out of date 3.5"g design to 5"g, and you would be far better off with Don Young's design.

The tapered barrel and belpaire firebox isnt easy neither are the piston valve cylinders.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Ron,

Before next Wednesday we could swap injectors! I will send you one of mine as a spare anyway.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Ron,

Citric acid grows something if left untreated. It is best flushed out then treated with bleach if on a boiler, then washed out considerably.

I use citric acid on injectors send to me that require cleaning. I dont use vinegar.

I think the particular problem with commercial injectors currently is that apart from the Len Steel (Chiverton) injectors marketed by Paul Pavier, most current commercial products on sale are far inferior to what was available 20-30 years ago.

I have no connection with Paul Pavier and Len Steel, and usual disclaimer.

I did recommend to Ron that he ordered his injectors from Paul Pavier of Len Steel 'make' (there is quite a long waiting list, and a higher price) but Ron opted instead for other makes.

Cheers,

Julian

I am sending Ron one of my working spare injectors again, and Ron will send me his commercial injector that failed at the weekend.

There is nothing wrong with Ron's loco's pipework etc as when I sent him one of my working spare injectors previously it worked perfectly on his loco.

When I examine Ron's commercial injector I will provide a full report on what is found.

Ron, I dont think you needed to take off the boiler and clean it out in advance of a detailed inspection of the injector.

I have had over 30 years happy steaming of miniature locos without resort to axle or handpumps, relying just on the injectors fitted.

I think Ron's re-connecting of the axle pump is a good thing in his case. Unfortunately one of my working spare injectors that Ron found so successful, compared to the commercial gadgets he had bought, resulted in a decision to disconnect the axlepump by Ron.

In a week or so's time we will know whether the commercial injector is at fault, or 'foreign bodies' inside, or perhaps something else.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi John,

Try to dress the joints a bit.

I always use Bakers Fluid Flux and old fashioned sticks of plumbers solder. If there is any external excess it can be removed with various implements especially a Stanley blade etc.

My platework is always very bad, but I have always found the above very forgiving of my lack of skill in platework.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi John,

You need to take a pinch of salt with some of what Gerry Tull wrote.

I never saw that pump working though I saw the loco running lots of times, and drove his gold medal winning 5"g IOW O2 based on Don Young's 'Fishbourne' design.

Gerry always said his whistle was 'special' for the O2. I never heard that either! He described in LLAS how he had researched how to make the perfect whistle. (He also described in LLAS how he made the pump).

Anyway jump on 30 or so years and Gerry's IOW O2 is now owned by a guy in the Isle of Man. At my request he very kindly took the whistle off the loco and measured it up and sent me pics. It is just a bog standard whistle - nothing special about it at all!

Bob has very kindly sent me the drawings of his own Westinghouse pump example. I would be very interested to know from Brian how he managed his own examples in 5"g.

Gerry was a wonderful guy and I am sure is sadly missed by many friends. I have quite a considerable correspondence with him, but unlike Brian my letters from Gerry have a printed letterhead with a printed picture of his O2 above!

The Southworth smallest pump is far too big for a standard gauge 5"g loco for scale size of a Westinghouse pump.

Cheers,

Julian

I dont think there is any question that Jim Ewins results were correct in the late 1960s.

He had access to the then state of the art stuff at Imperial College to test his 5" 0-6-2T loco which many years later I had the privilege of driving.

Jim Scott of the Newcastle and Tyneside club carried out similar experiments a couple of years ago with far more up to date sensors and replicated Jim Ewin's results.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi John,

You are very privileged to have the likes of Bob and Brian contribute to this discussion as they have both made working examples.

I knew Gerry Tull quite well and drove his award winning IOW O2 'Totland' but never saw the pump work. The 2 injectors supplied the boiler.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Neil,

You ought to have popped in on your visit to Barry and Cardiff!

I saw the same Galloper in Queens Street Cardiff Friday afternoon.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Greg,

I think I can speak with some authority having driven and maintained the IWMES club's enlarged AJAX for some 15 years.

The only enlargement was the addition of a bogie under an enlarged bunker for water and coal.

The boiler is good. It is an old Reeves design so isnt quite up to modern spec. The Achilles more recent version is better and worth considering.

There are issues with the valve gear as the return crank provides too much movement leading to overrun on the valves in fullgear.

I think you really ought to opt for a much more up to date design as AJAX dates back to the 1950s. It is very rarely built these days.

Cheers,

Julian

The feed from the sight glass does not have to go through the boiler.

It can be via 3/32" dia copper pipe underneath the boiler

If you PM me I will hopefully provide a few suggestions how to improve the Martin Evans/Fred Cottam design for the 5"g GWR Manor.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi John,

The Don Young 'Fishbourne' IOW O2 5"g design doesnt work!

There is little information on a scale 5"g design single acting pump. I have seen a number of LBSC type pumps work on 5"g locos of single cylinder type, and driven a few with this type, but the rocker arm to avoid the crossed ports is a serious departure from fullsize. To avoid the rocker arm you need crossed ports which very considerably complicates making the steam chest.

In 7.25"g this isnt a problem, but in 5"g it is very very tricky to replicate a scale Westinghouse pump.

Cheers,

Julian

Edited By julian atkins on 01/02/2017 23:56:47

Hi David,

You have exhibited on here on a number of issues and occasions a complete failure to understand the workings of locomotive and traction engine valve gears.

Can I respectfully suggest you make a study of this subject. Posing questions with a paucity of information to be able to resolve the problem is not the best way forward.

Cheers,

Julian

Thank you very Michael for your kind words.

It is silver soldered throughout including all the stays.

For Lee to get his Boxhill type boiler TIG welded it will have to be re-designed. This is quite an awkward process in many clubs, unless undertaken by the commercial builder. I have seen lots of commercial Simplex and Rob Roy boilers TIG welded but not a Boxhill yet.

I dont have a problem with a TIG welded boiler per se, but in the case of Boxhill it just wont look right!

After all, when driving the bit you look at most is the backhead, and it ought to look right. I dont really want to look at an ugly TIG welded joint on the backhead.

Hopefully Lee will comment further as the OP.

Cheers,

Julian

Hi Lee,

I also incorporated a double flanged throatplate to mine which is I consider a considerable improvement to the original design.

The backhead and throatplate and firebox sides could also do with far more stays which I added compared to the original design. A commercial boiler maker of repute will add these as a matter of course.

Cheers,

Julian

Edited By julian atkins on 29/01/2017 00:31:05

Edited By julian atkins on 28/01/2017 23:27:30

Hi Lee,

As someone who has made a Boxhill boiler recently in 5"g perhaps I might add a few comments.

(Mine differs from the original what I consider to be defective design by Martin Evans).

The Martin Evans design was during his early 'experimental' period when he really pushed the boundaries as to what had been acceptable before for boilers hence no crown stays fixed to the outer firebox wrapper etc. The inner firebox wrapper is far too thin for my liking. The water gauge bottom bush is far too low. None of the backhead fittings are in the right place for fullsize.

There are lots of pics in my albums of my own boiler build with correct oblong firehole ring as per original and 2 water gauges.

For TIG welding the whole boiler design needs looking at and redesigning to give the proper joints required for TIG welds plus the correct grade of copper needs using. This will require almost certainly a joint on the barrel longitudinally as the barrel will have to be made out of sheet copper of deoxidised sheet.

This barrel joint might conflict with the very close weighshaft of the valve gear.

I could only get C101 copper tube for my boiler barrel of 3 3/4" dia, which also was split to form the firebox with only an outer firebox extension added on the right hand side (Evans' design called for an extension on each side).

I also fitted in 2 extra ordinary flues.

Mine has the correct to prototype oblong firebox hole ring and correct Stroudley firehole door.

I think a much neater boiler is produced by silver soldering than TIG, which in the case of Boxhill might be quite important. For example in fullsize there is a generous radius on the backhead flange not followed by Martin Evans but which I endeavoured to replicate. This would not be possible I suggest with a TIG welded boiler.

It is quite a simple boiler to build as a silver soldered job.

I do not disagree with any of the previous posters comments.

Cheers,

Julian

Edited By julian atkins on 28/01/2017 23:31:30

Seems a bit 'sky in the pie' to me.

A second hand warco and chester.

Not exactly earth shattering.

£20,000?!

I dealt with these matters on countless occasions as a club secretary approached to deal with a deceased member's workshop contents which so far as the family were concerned were worth a fortune as convinced by them by the deceased, before becoming deceased.

A tricky situation.

Cheers,

Julian