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Member postings for Bogstandard

Here is a list of all the postings Bogstandard has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

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Thread: levelling
29/11/2010 22:43:23
For the last century, and most probably a lot more, if you read the manufacturers manuals (which unfortunately you don't seem to get good ones any more), you will find that they always advise to mount the machine to a rigid base and get it level and without twist.
 
Then along comes certain people who think their method is best,
 
I sure know who I would take my instructions from.
 
BTW Terry, you haven't just joined HMEM have you, and made the same sorts of comments on one of my posts. I really enjoy destroying people in public, as will happen over there when or even if he replies.
 
 
Bogs
Thread: Mills
28/11/2010 17:05:13
You will find nowadays that most Weldon (straight shank) cutters in both slot and end now come with a centre cutting face.
 
All my solid carbide multi flute cutters are made that way, and any HSS end mills I buy are the same, even down to very small sizes.
 

 
 
 

 
.
 
So I think before long, there will be no differentiation between slot and end mills, you will just buy by the size and the speed type, plus quantity of flutes required.
 
I must say, it makes life so much easier.
 
 
Bogs
Thread: levelling
28/11/2010 16:55:58
You're very welcome Bob
 
John
27/11/2010 08:25:48
Ian,
 
On fleabay in the UK, they usually go for between 25 to 35 squid for a M&W, depending on the size and condition, and I think I got the clinometer for a tad under 30.
 
It was a few years ago and had to wait for the right time, but if you persevere, they are still there to be had.
 
A very worthwhile investment. I also made sure that I bought the same make in the two sizes, as the vials are the same if ever you break one.
In fact it was only yesterday that I sent one of my spare vials out to a friend in the US.
 
 
Bogs

Edited By Bogstandard on 27/11/2010 08:33:44

26/11/2010 02:00:22
This post isn't about levelling a lathe, but my mill. But a lot of the information given is applicable to both. Especially the tools used.
 
 
And before the remarks start to come in, the shock absorbing feet mentioned towards the start of the thread are very expensive balanced weight units, not the cheapo rubber faced ones costing say 50 to 100 squid a set, which I wouldn't recommend for any lathe or mill levelling as they allow twisting while the machine is in operation.
 
But that of course is up to the owner if he wants to fit them or not.
 
 
Bogs
Thread: Mills
26/11/2010 01:34:25
To get accurate width slots, it is better if you first cut the slot out to within say 0.005" of depth with a one size smaller cutter. This is where using both metric and imperial can come to the assistance of each other, say for a 1/4" slot, go down with a 6mm one first. Then follow down to full depth with the right sized cutter, with plenty of lube and very slow feed.
 
By taking the fine feed last, you won't get as much tool deflection, if any, to make the slot oversized.
 
The other way is to go down first with a one size under cutter, then take a skimming cut either side with the same cutter to bring the slot to correct width.
 
I invariably use the first method and get very acceptable results.
 
 
Bogs
Thread: levelling
24/11/2010 06:34:15
The problem isn't just the levelling, that is the easy bit. You must ensure all TWIST is removed from the machine.
 
Even large industrial jobs with massive castings twist somewhat, and most of the stuff we use in our shops are like jelly. Just see how far they cut off when you rest your hand on the headstock whilst taking a cut. A machine is for machining with, and not to be used as a lounging support. Only touch the parts that need to be whist machining.
 
I am sure that these rubber levelling mounts were made for gullible model engineers, they defeat the object of levelling. I only used them on my compressor to keep the noise down. You cannot level and remain level in use whilst sitting on rubber anti vibration mounts.
All the mini lathe owners, throw away the rubber bungs that the lathe sits on and get it mounted to something level and solid. You might find that surface finishes and keeping size improves dramatically.
 
When I was installing machines up to 65ft long and multi part, everything was levelled and twist removed by using metal to metal levelling feet. A plate with a dimple in onto the floor, a pointed adjusting screw into the dimple in the plate The plates were cast steel and great for making flywheels out of.
 
I haven't gone that far, but my levelling feet on the lathe are nothing more than eight 16mm bolts, with the heads resting onto the concrete floor, and the mill has stainless shims.  I give them a quick levelling check fairly regularly, just to make sure nothing untowards has happened. Nothing out of the ordinary in nearly three years.
 
I personally don't believe in bolting a machine to the floor in small workshops, purely because in an industrial environment, temperatures shouldn't fluctate as much as it does in our little sheds. If they are bolted down, they can easily twist out of shape as the temp rises and falls.

 
Now let's get this discussion going rather than playing about with it.
 
 
Bogs

Edited By Bogstandard on 24/11/2010 06:37:05

Thread: Chinese lathes
22/11/2010 10:24:08
What I would like to know.
 
What was Warco's reaction when you showed them the problems?
 
Or did you just post them up here without informing them first?
 
If you did post without first contacting Warco, then there is no sympathy at all coming from this direction.
 
I have always found that if there is a problem, most (not all) retailers will bend over backwards to make sure you are happy with your purchase. For the ones that won't, trading standards can usually be brought in to solve your problems, and then don't ever use them again, and also warn other people off from using them. It is up to them to build their reputations back up again.
 
The lathe shown is very similar to my own, except for the build up of the head, I have a few more bits 'n bobs inside mine, but I suffered none of the problems that were shown, and I went over mine with a fine tooth comb when doing all my vital and necessary initial setups.
In fact, the lathe I have, is the second one. I refused to accept the first because there were certain points to the lathe that I didn't like, leadscrew cover preventing full travel of the saddle and the chuck guard wasn't to my liking, plus a few other little niggles. The replacement was swapped over by the supplier (it took them most of a day to get the old one out of my shop and the new one installed), and all points that I had raised were cured to my satisfaction, and at a large cost to the supplier for not only the time spent on it, but by fitting third party bits to replace the ones that I wasn't happy with.
In fact, I was invited to the factory workshop first, to check that everything was to my satisfaction before the swapover.
 
Warco, like most others, are box shifters, and can't be expected to unpack every machine and give it a thorough going over. Doing that would most probably double the cost of whatever you have bought.
It is up to people like ourselves to tell them where the troubles lie, so that the manufacturers can get their ar**s kicked, and told not to do it again.
 
I know for a fact that some of the mods I have shown on sites belonging to suppliers have directly resulted in certain mods being done to machines at the factory.
 
So it does work, they do listen to the little man in the street, sometimes.
 
But one thing that MUST NOT be done, is to crucify a supplier without first giving them a chance to rectify what is wrong.
 
Bogs
Thread: Which New Lathe; choices, choices...
16/11/2010 10:09:57
TerryD,
 
No offence was intended.
 
It was the reference that my owning chinese machines that was the problem. To me, it came over that because I have and use them, means that they MUST be OK.
 
I do extol the virtues of the lathe and mill I do possess, but not quite so other earlier chinese machinery that I own, and would recommend those two if someone asked me personally if those particular models were any good.
Which shows the problem, impartial advice. I can only go on my experiences about two machines (plus a few others that I have had the good fortune to closely inspect and use) and others that I have owned or used during my lifetime.
 
You just can't group a large range of machines into a single phrase as being all good or all bad. There will always be a few black sheep lurking in the background, and then some real gems.
 
But one thing I do know, having followed the course of far eastern machines since from some of the  hammer and chisel creations they came up with in the 70's and 80's, to modern day high precision offerings. In the last ten years, their quality has taken a massive leap forwards, and if they continue on the same course, in another ten years, the quality should be up with the best of them.
 
BUT, the prices will also rise, like recently. Very rarely can you find quality and cheapness hand in hand. The more that is done by the manufacturers to gain that quality and fine tuning, the more you will have to pay for an item.
 
Bogs
 
14/11/2010 11:45:52
People are refering to what machines I have.
 
Machine choice has to be down to the individual, not following slavishly what advice is given. They should only act as guidelines.
 
Unless you go for second hand machinery, and there is nothing wrong with that if it is a good one, and being new to this sort of thing, if you take that route, you really need someone along to give you experienced guidance. There are people out there out to make a quick buck, and you can easily end up with something that looks good, but would take loadsa cash to get it put right.
 
In the new machine stakes, the far eastern machinery way does allow you to get a lot for your cash compared to European or British machines,  But on the other hand, Euro and Brit ones should be ready to go from day one, and that is really what your are paying for, as far as I am concerned, they are no better than far eastern ones, just the far eastern ones usually take a fair amount of setting up first. If you are able to do that, or have someone to assist you in getting it done, then that is the way I personally would recommend to go.
 
I bought both my machines new, 3 years ago, at a cost of around £6k. But as I warned earlier this year about far eastern price rises, today, that would be nearer to £10k. I could only have just bought one basic new Euro or Brit machine for that sort on money, and they wouldn't be as well specced as the machines I have. The lathe I have done a few mods to, just to make it easier for me personally to use, but the mill hasn't been touched since the day it was sat and levelled on my workshop floor, except for changing a plastic handle for a metal one just after it was settled in, purely for cosmetic reasons, an easily replaced 2 squid bearing because it managed to somehow get a bit of swarf inside it, and the tooling guide pin (a 5mm dog nosed grub screw) in the quill was replaced because a bit of bad tooling got stuck in the quill and I had to belt it out.
Oh! I forgot, the motor on the lathe started to play up a bit after about 6 months use, caused by the start caps. That problem was fixed by the next day when Chester UK sent me a complete new 2HP motor by overnight courier rather than just the replacement caps. It has been perfect ever since.
 
My heart really bleeds for the new starters, because it must be so confusing for them, having all this info pushed at them from all different angles. It is a miracle a lot of them still want to carry on.
 
If only someone could only get organised a web site, where the sorts of new machines that we encounter could be impartially reviewed. That would go a long way to sorting this confusion out. A bit like the magazine Which, but for the model engineer.
 
It is the impartiality that causes the problem, and I am just as guilty of that as well, everyone reviews the machines they have, good or bad, thru their own eyes, rather than in a completely neutral and unbiased way.
 
 
Bogs
Thread: Cleaning up after Silver soldering (brazing)
12/11/2010 04:58:21
Clive,
 
For a perfectly safe pickling solution, go to either a chemist or a home brew shop and purchase some citric acid. It comes as crystal and is perfectly safe to handle.
 
Get yourself a small plastic container with a lid, big enough to put the parts in and fully immerse them.
 
2/3rds fill the container with warm to hot water, and spoon in the granules whilst continually stirring, don't put too much in at a time. Keep slowly adding the crystals until no more will dissolve in the solution. Thats it, you have a saturated citric acid pickling mix.
 
A small box from the chemists will cost around £1 or a bagfull from the home brew shop maybe a couple of squid. The small box will make about 4 pints of pickle. Some supermarkets stock it in their cooking departments. The chemist might ask you what you are going to use it for, as it is sometimes used for processing certain illegal drugs, so just tell them the truth.
 
Put your bits in and wait for an hour, and you should find that things have really cleaned up. If not fully cleaned, just put the bits in a little longer, they can stay in there almost indefinitely withou coming to harm.
 
Don't throw the mix away, it can be used over and over, until it starts to lose it's cleaning power.
 
You can add a teaspoon of domestic bleach, that will keep the fungus growth down over long periods of storage.
 
I use mine until it is almost black, and as long as what is growing in there hasn't got tentacles, I class it as safe to use.
 
You can use stronger pickling salts  or even diluted nasty acid mixes, but this one is cheap and SAFE.
 
 
Bogs
 

Thread: Drilling of 34CrNiMo6 4340 817M40 En24?
11/11/2010 11:02:18
Maybe you could try these. I use them for anything that is a little bit hard or tough that tends to flatten off the ends of normal HSS bits.
 
The place is also very good for normal ground drills, and where I buy all mine in bulk.
 
 
As you can see, in some of the larger ones, they do up to 300mm long.
 
Bogs
Thread: Restoring a steam engine
11/11/2010 10:42:45
For something large to soak it in, your local council supplies them free of charge.
 
Wheelie bins.
 
One of the half sized ones should be perfect.
 
 
Page 3 (no, not the Sun) seems to be the most appropriate.

 
Bogs

Edited By Bogstandard on 11/11/2010 10:53:59

Thread: Why is everything you buy such rubbish!!
08/11/2010 10:07:19
This country did a major change around in the 70's & 80's.
 
We swapped over from being a producer to a money grabbing 'yuppie' culture. The same sort of thing happened in the US as well, we just followed along like lambs to the slaughter.
 
So most our manufacturing went the way of the Dodo, and we started to 'buy in' everything that the money culture wanted.
 
The far east came to the rescue and gave us all what we wanted.
 
Cad and CNC took over, and soon everything could be designed and made out of cheaper materials, with obsolescence built in. Instead of something lasting a lifetime, things are now made to be thrown away after just a few short years. Hence us older ones term it as junk, and youngsters call it great, until a new model comes out., then the 'gotta have' takes over.
 
If you look deeper into Chinese production methods and products, you will find that they are up with the best of them, include in that the quality.India is going the same way.
 
What we see mainly are items made down to a price for the box shifters, who call themselves retailers. Who buy cheap and sell at large profits by the container load. Most have no idea of the quality or even about the product. If something goes wrong, it is cheaper for them just to give you a new item rather than repair it.
 
Give it another ten years, when China has really got it's act together.
Once that happens, the US, Japan, Korea and ourselves will all be 'has beens' in the manufacturing and quality stakes, and maybe even the power stakes as well.
 
BTW, I am not a great supporter of what has and is happening, just someone who takes an interest, and if you look around you, you too can see what is happening as well.
 
 
Bogs
Thread: MT3
07/11/2010 13:43:48
Ted,
 
You should find, in the UK, your drawbar thread for 3MT is either 3/8" Whit or M12.
 
It pays to have both on hand as sometimes you can buy a bit of tooling that isn't your normal thread, and so having both, you can accomodate almost anything you come across.
 
 
Bogs
Thread: Milling Machines
06/11/2010 09:43:22
Derek,
 
When considering milling machines, and lathes, it is a very personal thing.
 
I used to have a large mill/drill, and even though it was like using a lump of rubber at times, once you get used to the foibles, you can get around the problems, and it served me well for many years.
 
Several years ago my choice was between the Lux and the 626. After much searching about, and questioning the retailers (not asking other people, as you tend to get a biased view) I opted for the 626, because for me, it was just a little more versatile and easier to use.
But I didn't actually get to purchase one. A few more readies came my way and I went for one similar, but a bit more expensive and Bridgeport like than the ones Clive mentioned above, the Chester 836.
 
These medium sized mills like the Lux and the 626 are always a difficult choice, mainly because of their price range. For the same amount of cash, you could buy, if you have the room, a half decent second hand Bridgeport, or one of the clones, and with a bit of care and looking after will give you a machine for life, and you would have all the rigidity and cutting area you could ever want.
 
My shop couldn't take a full height Bridgeport, so I went for the next best thing, and has work out perfectly for myself, but maybe for no one else.
 
Other people can only give you their own experiences with certain machines, only yourself can make the decision if it is right for you, or not.
 
 
Bogs
Thread: increasing milling machine speeds.
03/11/2010 11:07:24
Dave,
 
My machine goes up to 2000RPM electronically (stepless), but I normally use around 1500 RPM for1.5mm HSS cutters into free cutting steel with no problems at all. That is a bit slow on RPM, but I adjust my feed rate to compensate (at home, there is no rush to get things done).
 
If I wanted to get the speed right up, rather than modding the machine, I think I would consider a secondary cutting spindle for the small stuff. There would be no extra wear to your machine by running it a lot faster.
 
Years ago, I made something very similar for the toolpost on my lathe. That was before I could afford things like rotary tables and milling machines for doing small indexing work, and it worked very well indeed.
 
 
 
Bogs
Thread: Grease nipple threads
02/11/2010 08:03:52
Grease nipples are made with a variety of threads, depending where and when the bits to fit them to were made, but the most common ones are BSP or metric.
 
These are a bit pricey but at least you will have enough to last a lifetime
 
 
I bought some about a year ago, I only needed half a dozen. At one time you could go to your local motor factor and get them, I tried them all around my place, even Halfords, but it seems they run out years ago as most things now are sealed for life, but your local engineering  supplier or farming supplies should be able to help you out, but most do have a minimum order. I finished up buying metric ones.
 
I hope this puts you on the right trail.
 

Bogs
Thread: warco mill help needed
01/11/2010 22:35:32
Ed,
 
One thing I didn't mention was types of cutters.
 
If you go for the posilock system, they can only be used with screwed shank cutters.
 
Seeing as to how most cutters nowadays (including all the cheaper ranges) are either a Weldon shank or just a plain shank. ER and your plain collets will hold ALL types.
 
It is a fact of life that ER are more expensive initially than the Posilock system, but you have a choice, buy the cheaper Posilock, and only be able to use a fraction of the available cutters (screwed shank cutters only), or go for the ER system (all shank types) and be set up for life.
 
The larger the size of number for ER, means that it will hold larger sizes of cutters, so really, ER25 is the smallest size you should go for, and ER32 would be the ideal.
 
I hope this has made it clearer for you.
 
 
Bogs
01/11/2010 20:00:12
Ed,
 
Most people usually have the trouble of not having enough throat room. And use collets to give themselves a little more room. In fact I use them all the time, and my ER system is very rarely used.
 
There is nothing wrong with using collets in your quill for holding cutters. For the size of machine you have (it can't be too small because of it having a 3MT), collets are perfectly fine for holding cutters, in fact I hold 1"+ with my large machine with no problems at all, and have never had a cutter slip.
 
If you are going to get yourself a collet chuck, ignore the Clarkson type, they are too limiting on cutter shank sizes to be held. They are more for industrial use where very heavy cutting and standard sized cutter shanks are used. You will be much better off with an ER system. The ER collets usually have a 1mm closing range on the 25 and 32 systems, so will hold both metric and imperial cutter shanks and twist drills as well. For a 3MT sized machine, you can't go far wrong with an ER32 sized system. Plus if your lathe has 3MT or above sized spindle taper, they can be used as a rudimentary collet chuck to hold your round material for machining.
 
 
Bogs
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