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Milling Machines

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Derek Toller 105/11/2010 20:30:13
6 forum posts
I currently have a Centec 2B milling machine and am looking to buy a bigger machine capable of taking larger cuts. Does anyone have any experience of the Warco Super Major or the Chester Super Lux? At the recent Midlands Exhibition both suppliers were not very forthcoming about machining capabilities. I would welcome any comments about these please.
Thank yoy
Derek Toller
Clive Foster05/11/2010 23:41:27
3630 forum posts
128 photos

Derek

 

I have what is basically an older, somewhat unique,  version of the Chester Lux machine having a VFD controlled three phase motor with two speed belt drive but slightly shorter table.  If you are in striking distance of Crowborough, East Sussex you are welcome to come and play, personal experience being far better than 2nd hand as what drives me nuts may not worry you at all.  Heck its up for sale "some-when" so if you like it!  Mine has an R8 taper and, for all practical purposes, will take as heavy a cut as I'm prepared to put on the Bridgeport which has officially replaced it.
 
The square head is very large which can make setting up work and observing progress annoyingly difficult.  Especially on my shorter table it can be a right pain making room to swing the knocking stick when beating parts down onto parallels.  The large head is also very heavy, with no positive drive on the tilt anything more than about 10 degrees offset  is distinctly scary solo unless you have a winch or check strap to keep all under control.  Powered elevation for the head is vary desirable, mine has a plain crank which is hard work.  Possibly the very worst feature is that the spindle is well offset to the front of the machine and will not cover the whole table front to back so the official Y traverse is somewhat optimistic  without "creative" work holding arrangements. I fitted a proper 3 axis glass scale DRO set to mine immediately after purchase which proved essential to make the machine immediately useable.  After sorting a stack of niggly and head scratching problems the machine proved to be enviably accurate.  I believe factory QC is better on current machines.  Hopefully the depth stop arrangements have been revised.  The gears need to be quiet as most of the time the head is about 6 inches off you ears, even with my belt drive the sound is noticeable.
 
If you have the floor space and the money I'm inclined to think the "2/3 rds scale Bridgeport" VTM-2 machines from Engineers Toolroom may well be best-of-breed in this size / price range.  I'm darned if I can recall why I absolutely didn't like the round bar "ram" VMC / 636 type machines when researching prior to buying the Chester Lux style machine.  Many users are happy with these so it was probably something personal.
 
Clive
 

 

 

 

Bogstandard06/11/2010 09:43:22
263 forum posts
Derek,
 
When considering milling machines, and lathes, it is a very personal thing.
 
I used to have a large mill/drill, and even though it was like using a lump of rubber at times, once you get used to the foibles, you can get around the problems, and it served me well for many years.
 
Several years ago my choice was between the Lux and the 626. After much searching about, and questioning the retailers (not asking other people, as you tend to get a biased view) I opted for the 626, because for me, it was just a little more versatile and easier to use.
But I didn't actually get to purchase one. A few more readies came my way and I went for one similar, but a bit more expensive and Bridgeport like than the ones Clive mentioned above, the Chester 836.
 
These medium sized mills like the Lux and the 626 are always a difficult choice, mainly because of their price range. For the same amount of cash, you could buy, if you have the room, a half decent second hand Bridgeport, or one of the clones, and with a bit of care and looking after will give you a machine for life, and you would have all the rigidity and cutting area you could ever want.
 
My shop couldn't take a full height Bridgeport, so I went for the next best thing, and has work out perfectly for myself, but maybe for no one else.
 
Other people can only give you their own experiences with certain machines, only yourself can make the decision if it is right for you, or not.
 
 
Bogs
Nicholas Farr06/11/2010 10:42:52
avatar
3988 forum posts
1799 photos
Hi Derek and everone, I agree with Bogs, only you can choose which is right for you. The biggest problem is that they a like mobil phones! there's so much to choose from. But price, space, practicallity, and apperance will pervail, just get them in the right priority for your own values.
 
Regards Nick.
Derek Toller 106/11/2010 17:57:53
6 forum posts
Thanks for all your advice so far, it has been useful. Clive, I'm afraid I live in Derbyshiure so it's difficult getting your way but thank you for the offer.
 
My budget won't stretch to a Chester 836 and I haven't the space for a full size Bridgeport. I guess what I really want to know is what sort of metal removal rate can be achieved on a Lux type of machine without the machine vibrating itself to pieces. So for example if I was slotting mild steel using a half inch end mill what depth of cut and traverse rate could be usefully be used. I realise that this is a bit of an open ended question but to me this is a more important criterion than what the machine looks like!
 
Thanks again
Derek T
Clive Foster06/11/2010 21:18:00
3630 forum posts
128 photos
Derek
 
My experience is that its not so much the rigidity of the machine that limits the cut taken but rather the volume of swarf so you should have no worries there.  I have one of the handy dandy card sleeve and slider feed'n speed calculators which you used to be able to get pretty much for free from the cutter makers (mine is Osborn) and found the values given perfectly acceptable after the usual reductions in speed to get home shop friendly cutter life.  With hand feed the actual tooth loads were more a promise than reality but I guess around 10 to 20 % under book would have been somewhere near.  Avoiding ultra tiny, cutter blunting, cuts naturally.  The machine came with a 3" brazed carbide face mill which it was perfectly able to handle on rational cuts leaving a decent finish so a 1/2" cutter is well within its capabilities.  I got one of the Little Hogger sets from Chronos which made an excellent general purpose set running about twice as fast as book HSS speeds. 
 
As I said previously my dislikes centred on work access and visibility not pure cutting performance.  Before redundancy provided the wherewithal and necessity of building a 32 ft x 16 ft workshop I contemplated some pretty serious modifications to improve things whilst still fitting into the machine half of my 12 ft x 8 ft shed.  Essentially I proposed to perform major surgery on the head castings to improve visibility, shift the dovetail column sideways, turn it through 90° and hang the modified head off a short Bridgeport style ram carried on the dovetail column.  Clearly I'd not have contemplated that amount of work on a machine of unsatisfactory cutting performance. 
 
Clive 
michael cole07/11/2010 09:20:16
166 forum posts
Hi Derek
I have a Lux not the super Lux. Mine has the MT4 spindel and will take a heavyier cut than a R8 Bridgeport..
The hand crank for the head is not a problem but then the super Lux has a power feed. I went for the Lux over the 636 types to get the bigger table. I am currently cutting the splines on a 1/3 scale traction engine crank, whichis just over 22 inches long. add the dividing head and tailstock and this setup won't fit on the 636. the gear head is a bit noisy but then i hate to have to change speed with belts, and it a lot more inportant to get the speed right on a mill than a lathe.
 the head is large and I do sometimes have to move the table to knock down parts. Make sure you have X feed power feed on a machine this size. I prefer to use a tilting vice than tilt the head as Clive says no worm gear to tilt.The worst part of the machine is oiling the table and on mine there is one small oiler front and back and the back is very differcult to use.
 
 Mike
Laurence B07/11/2010 11:29:58
58 forum posts
I own a Centec 2B and I wouldn't part with it.It's a quality machine capable of taking 50 thou cuts in mild steel with ease.The expression - 'a knife through butter' comes to mind.The milling cutters have to be in good condition of course,but then,that applies to any machine.

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