Member postings for Doubletop

Now the series is complete and I've read and re-read I’ve decided to give the Bobcat a go. I’m waiting for my "suitable aluminum block" to arrive from my ally emporium and then I'm off. This will be my first I/C engine.

At risk of re-igniting the perennial debate, and I'm not condoning errors, but you know the drawings and text are going to be wrong somewhere so it's a case of live with it and pay attention. Surely it all contributes to the intellectual challenge.

Pete

It's finding its way to NZ correctly

Pete

Edited By Doubletop on 24/01/2013 08:37:52

Just gone to the Warco site its similar to the machine that RGD are offering. Its a Deckel copy. The link above has what you need

Pete

David

Is it like one of the U2 cutter grinders RGD are selling? The Instructions they have on their website are translations of the chinese manual and useless. Somebody pointed out to me that these chinese cutter grinders are copies of Deckel SO/SOE cutter grinders

Go here **LINK** and sign up and the files/downloads pages has copies of the Deckel manuals. At the back is the instructions for drill bit attachment. You see the translations have mangled all the labels so they are meaningless.

If you get a copy of the Harold Hall book "38 - Tool and Cutter Sharpening". A lot of good info in there. Also the Quorn user guide.

Pete

Terry

From a beginners point of view when trying this (or any other new process) there are so many variables and zero experience that it is hard to work out which particular variable is the cause of any problem. That's where I was two years ago when I made my first boiler and anything I tried didn't seem to resolve the issue. Suddenly the planets lined up and I now wonder why problems had existed. These days I just do it and it works, but in reality I do much the same thing each time and I now can spot the' sweet spot' when its time to feed solder

For beginners my advice was based on that recent experience and getting the basic stuff organized to remove any doubt. The rest can then be a matter of just do it and learn.

The other aspect is overcoming those negatives of either experience or advice. Some examples in my case :

• I read ‘flux can go off very quickly under heat and become ineffective” How long, how much heat? It was never answered so I was cautious. Tenacity 5 type fluxes don’t have this problem, so a variable removed.
• I melted some brass bushes on an early attempt. OK brass was the wrong material for bushes as it de-zincifies, found that out and moved to bronze. But I was still cautious when soldering bushes. It was over a year later when I was told bronze wouldn’t melt. Caution gone, wack on the heat.
• Stick feeding works, but when you are doing this for the first time and all this stuff is going through your head, waving a stick of solder at the job at the critical moment just adds to the stress and it invariably doesn’t go where you want it. So use pallions where you can. Another variable removed.

Get the basics out of the way and get the solder to flow well the first time and there is only one way forward, better and better results each time

Pete

I'm not claiming to be an expert on this subject apart from 'been there done that' with a couple of basic boilers and then one for the Northumbrian. What I haven't seen in the thread is any reference to the flux and if there is one thing I've learned is "get the flux right", ahead of 'how much heat".

Once I found Tenacity #5, or at least an equivalent to it, my silver soldering experiences improved by an order of magnitude. Even to the extent that before I couldn’t get the solder to flow, then I couldn’t stop it.

The other lesson was trying to manage the torch with one hand and feed the length solder rod with the other is doomed to failure. You never know whether you’ve got the heat and solder in the right place at the right time. Use “pallions”, short lengths of solder cut up and placed a round the job where you need the solder to flow. With plenty of the right flux you’ll soon know its working. One second lumps of half melted solder and then its gone, and flowed into the joint. Time to move the heat on to the next area.

………..Oh! and another thing while I’m rambling on. Keep the torch back from the job. Too close and you don’t have the work area in the hottest part of the flame. With the bigger burners that can be a foot or more.

Pete

Thanks David

I'm hanging out for the last parts of the Nemet Jaguar series. After three loco projects I want to do something a bit different and have a fancifull idea of trying it as a V4. But never having made an I/C engine I'll do one to spec first.

Enjoy your Chrstmas day, ours is just about done in NZ

Pete

John/David

My issue 4445 has been held up in the Christmas post so only received it the other day and my search for 4445 only found this thread.

Looking forward to the bumper issue with the extra content in the New Year.

Pete

Neil

I thought I was loosing it, convinced I'd already read the article, I went through recent copies to find it was a repeat from 4443. I also noted the missing pictures 8,9 and 10 from the Out and About 2012 article.

I assume an editorial cock up with the temporay handing over of the reins while David had a break. I'd hope we'll get a bumber issue with a double dose of Doug at some point. We have paid for twice for the same four pages.

Pete

You are making a really nice job of that Phil. Now you've got me thinking what could have I done differently

Pete

Tom

That's about what I'd got from the Yahoo forum, 26 pages of SOE guide with the drill attachment and 15 assorted pages for the SO covering single lip cutters. The wording for the drill attachment is a direct copy for the Chinglish translation I got from RGD but they changed the references for the drill attachment by adding a "K". However, the references to machine parts is exactly the same as for the Deckel but they don't match the nomenclature of the controls used in the document. No wonder I was confused. Conclusion; go to the Yahoo group and get the Deckel SOE guide from there.

For the Milling and Lathe attachments. the Quorn guide is more than adequate. As the Quorn was from a 1974 ME series I’d guess the Deckel came first and there's no denying the similarity of the design in the work holding head. The only major difference being the Deckel cross slide becomes the Quorn swinging headstock

The only part that seems to be missing for sharpening milling cutters is the tooth rest, that with a few other bits and bobs on the Quorn none of which shouldn’t be too hard to replicate.

Thanks again for the reference the fog has now cleared.

Pete

Tom

Thanks for the info. Once I knew it was a Deckel copy I went searching for information and there is a Yahoo group "pantograph engravers"

**LINK**

They have parts of the Deckel and Alexander manuals in the files section. Given the nature of the forum predominantly about single lip cutters. One of the docs does cover the drilling sharpening attachment but there nothing in lathe tools or milling cutters. Which isn’t surprising. The Quorn ,manual covers that.

Parts of the manulas bear a striking resemblance to the Chinese manual that came with my machine and the translated version on the RGD site. To the extent the various parts of the machine appear to use the same nonclementure. Funny that.

As a matter of interest what topics does your manual contain?

Pete

Well I went and purchased one of these directly from China from one of the Alibaba suppliers. USD450 including all the attachments and USD336 shipping as it was allegedly 60Kg (USD5.60/kg). It arrived with the waybill saying it was 38kg and the box had 48kg printed on the side. A bit of a debate about the shipping cost charged and true weight of the shipment and I eventually got them to rebate me.

It also arrived with only three collets although the website said 5, they sent me the other 2.

The instructions were in Chinese however I had down loaded the English instructions posted on the RGD site. It’s debatable which is the more useful. I resorted to reading the RGD instructions looking at the diagrams in the supplied instructions. In all, pretty hopeless. I think the RGD instructions are a copy of some I've found on a US site. It’s clear they have been poorly translated from the original Chinese copy. One point; the back page refers to R8 collets, based on that I ordered a set from CTC before the machine arrived. Beware the U2 uses 3C collets and the U3 uses R8. I now have a spare set of R8 collets.

The reason I purchased machine is I'm new to this game and don't have the years of experience some of you have using off hand grinders. I needed something to do the job and really couldn't be fussed making a Quorn, a Worden or whatever, I took the view that the problem is the same and any solution is going to be similar. With that in mind one of the club members had made a Quorn and had the manual so I borrowed it. In most aspects my assumption was correct and using the Quorn manual I can now get results. OK it doesn't have the ability to swing the head, adjust its height or run in reverse, but none of the other cutter grinders can do that as far as I can see. It doesn't have the long bar and tailstock, but who needs it. The rest is pretty similar and using the Quorn guide its possible to establish the intent and work out how to use the U2 to do the same. As John says it’s suited to making single point cutters but you can do that on the Quorn as well.

I’m happy with it but would be happier if somebody who knew what they were doing wrote a proper guide for it in English.(please)

Pete

On my readout the 1/2 button switches between radius and diameter. There is no indication what you are in so I do as Clive suggests and make a trial cut to find out. It will keep your last setting but a case of don’t assume check.

I've also found that the if you have a scale on the saddle and top slide the "integrate Y&Z" function the "ARC" button on mine. sums the two scales on the Y readout so you can move the saddle and top slide and maintain reference along the job. This expects cross slide on X, top slide on Y and saddle on Z. If you want a DRO on the tailstock I'd suggest a means of switching the saddle and tailstock connections to the Z readout

I'm out in the workshop now and from Clives comment realise that Jason's pic is the Y axis. Yes it is tight but using the D covers with the back plate and some simple standoffs from 19mm ally I did my Y like this

Pete

Its tight but not impossible. You'll see from my pic the scale cover is a couple of mm below the top of the table. And remember the reader is fixed and the scale moves with the table so that small gap between the reader and the Y jib plate isn't an issues as they don't move relative to each other. No machining was necesary.

I've just had a look at Jasons pictures. I requested the D covers which come with a 10mm thick backplate. That, and the size of the larger scales, stands off the whole assembly so the reader now secures on the back face and not the top face of the casting. compare the two photos.

Otherwise pay the extra $20 and get the smaller scales. Neither option is wrong

Pete

You dont need the more expensive KS500 scales for the SX3 the standard size scales are fine. But you can use them if you want to.

I did a bit of a write up here. **LINK**

Althouh the title says X3 I have an SX3. I assume the SX3 and X3 tables are the same. If you have a long table from ARC just select a longer scale.

Hope that helps somebody

Pete

Edited By Doubletop on 02/11/2012 19:38:17

I am one of those satisfied customers John mentions. I did my SX3 Mill and the transformation was unbelievable. I've just done my lathe and its a different machine. I can now concentrate making things accurately rather than trying to remember where I am with my counting. The built in functions move the machines to another dimension.

Pete

Try Mark at BA Bolts

[email protected]

He appears to make to order "Just waiting for one of the items on your order, machine will be free later on today to make these small bolts" so just ask and see what he can do for you.

Pete

I've just about completed the refurbishment of my second hand Simplex. It's boiler has been re-certified and I've just got a list of odd jobs to tidy up bits and bobs that I'm working through.

Now I've run it, one of those jobs is replacing the ash pan with one I can get in and out. With the Super Simplex Martin Evans acknowledged the error in his original design and modified the ash pan to be removable. In doing that he also modified the foundation ring on the boiler.

OK I should have done this before I put it alll back together but I can't get the existing ash pan out without removing the tanks, cab, some of the plumbing and releasing the boiler mounts so I can lift the boiler sufficiently to get it out. So before I do all that can I ask is it possible to make a functional but removable ash pan for a standard Simplex? I have fabricated horns not cast.

thanks

Pete