Member postings for Oily Rag

Hi Ian,

A warm welcome to the forum.

An image would certainly help in understanding your problem, and it appears you may have tried to post a picture. There is a link in the FAQ's (or somewhere! ) but essentially you have to create an album and then click on the camera icon on the above toolbar in the 'Add Posting' pop up to post with text. An odd quirk is that you can continue typing after posting a picture but it is best to hit carriage return to get the text on the next line down. The photos can be loaded only 5 at a time to your album and there does not appear to be an upper limit of photos you can have in your album. Jason will be along next to put me right on this I'm sure; overall it is pretty easy once you get used to it.

To hold the sprocket(cog ? ) can you wrap a length of old chain around it and secure in a vice. That will secure the cog (sprocket ) whilst you then drift, C spanner, or whatever is holding the cog. If its threaded there may be a visible sign of a thread at the ring shaft interface. Clean it up well and it should be obvious what the fixing system is.

Martin

Pete,

Another point I've just noticed - in the photo, last but one above showing the Bull wheel of the back gear on the pulley, I see you have removed the 'balance bolt' it doesn't do anything other than balance the pulley assembly and is not part of the strip routine. These drills with the high speed motor option would spin up to 3000 rpm so balance was important. Sorry if I'm telling you to suck eggs, but it had me baffled as to what it did!

The other point is all the bolts and Allen keys are imperial sizes. The picture showing you with the water pump pliers on the lower bearing retainer plate made me wince a little - naughty boy!! If you haven't got a 7/16th AF spanner a 11mm is spitting close to bull's eye.

Martin

Forgot to mention that I had a problem getting the elevating post for the top cover out of its housing. As I see yours is still attached. The 'pull' knob to release the post does not 'pull' far enough when fitted, so, release the body nut a few turns to get the post to disengage all the way from the detent.

Martin

Pete,

The tin plate bearing holder has 5 holes in it and the casting has 5 matching tapped holes (1/4" UNC). this is to allow both components to be used for either backgeared or non backgeared drills (QDM 750 for the former, QDM500 for the later and a option on the QDM625 of either BG or Non BG )

The plate is deftly levered off the bearing using a small pry bar - once it starts to move after levering the outer edge between the small back gear spindle gear, then move to levering between the centre race and the inner cup of the plate. It is surprisingly easy to get it off (even when heavily corroded like mine was ). Be warned that this may need the bearing replaced on rebuild especially the top bearing which will need a puller. The plate is easily tapped 'straight' on a flat surface with a light hammer after use of the pry bar.

When replacing the upper bearing support bracket, tap the two dowels back so the bolts can be inserted first and started and the upper bearing snugged into its housing with light taps. Then drive the dowels in afterwards. Also work the quill up and down whilst snugging the lower plate bearing holder so that is all lines up without bind.

I would appreciate details of your quill lock (pictures and dimensions of the parts) as mine is just a 3/8" grub screw, which presses onto a spigoted 'bullet' which fits the quill keyway. the bullet is brass whereas others I have seen are steel.

What is your machine serial number? Mine is 17J19U321 but the 3 maybe a 'B' or '5'

Your machine is in excellent condition compared to how mine was when I received it. BTW what motor do you have on yours - mine was made in USSR, CI body but surprisingly quiet, and it ran! after standing outside for 5 years, 3 phase now wired 220v delta from star 415 v original.

PS I added an extra screw in the tin plate bearing holder at the 5-O-Clock position, the bull wheel fouls the other tapped hole at the 1-O-Clock position.

Martin

Finished the work on the 'Cremulator' (see previous post regarding straightness of BDMS! ) and the new piece of BDMS was superbly straight. Got the machine back together with the bearing modifications and it all runs well - just wait now 6 months to see if the redesign has cured the bearing mash up.

Another job came up which required a M16 x 2 LH thread on a shaft and a matching nut. I found I had a LH tap for the nut but the shaft had to be screw cut using a lay down insert. All my form inserts were for use in a toolholder with 'bias' for RH threads, but I managed to find a non biased toolholder in my tooling and used a Metric all purpose insert (1.5p to 3.0p ). I made a 2.3mm wide 'run-out' (actually a run-in as the LH thread needed the cut to be made away from the headstock ) and made this 'run-out' to thread minor diameter. Machined the thread but the crests were not right - so dug in my tooling box again and found a 2p hand chaser. After about 5 or 6 passes shaving a little off on each pass and then trying the nut I got an excellent fit. The hand chaser saved my day!

Which got me to thinking that you do not see hand chasers advertised these days - does anyone still use them??

Martin

I endorse Michael G's post above - a very good question!

JA's post to look up the life and work of Henry Maudsley is a good starting point. The follow up to that would be to visit the Birmingham Centre Point which hopefully still has Joseph Whitworth's first lead screws, all three of them, (made from three screws hand chiselled and filed then each fitted to a lathe to remove error in the time old A-B, B-C, A-C. Don't bet on it though as some significant exhibits haven't seen the light of day for years!

A word here about what used to be the Birmingham Science Museum, now partially housed in the Centre Point building alongside City of Birmingham University (note: Not Birmingham University - that's in Edgbaston ). This facility is a shadow of the old Museum and some of that is down to its juxta-positioning to the C-o-B Media Studies and Performing Arts faculty next door. It has been dumbed down to now little more than a TV screen which alongside the exhibits does nothing to inform you of the object but rather berates the social injustices perpetrated on the 'victims' of capitalism forced to work in dingy work places!

As for more modern examples, when I was an apprentice at AH Ltd,. I worked on a Cincinnati vertical mill which had been fished out of the hold of the ship bringing it from the USA in 1941 (the ship had been sunk in Liverpool docks ) It had so much wear having been flogged to death by day and night shifts that the only way to accurately use it was by use of dial indicators and dead length bars (an early version of DRO, but actually ARO! ). This machine was used almost exclusively for 'fitters returns' where we 'fettled' parts which would not fit correctly due to some error. It often included easing a gearbox mating face by '0 thou, 3 thou, 8 thou, and 2 thou on the 4 corner mating edges. Another job was a lengthened leadscrew for a special machine which needed an extension shaft which had also to run in a housing at the point of the join - this meant the shaft had to be 'tongued and grooved' to an accuracy of 2 tenths of a thou runout between the two components.

I got a bar of chocolate off the foreman for that job.

The other machine I worked on was a No. 16 Universal which was part of an order in 1916 for Tsarist Russia, it had been rejected by the Russian on site Inspectors as being out of limits, so in Herbert tradition was put to work in making parts for there own machine tools! One component was the intricate drum cams for the cam auto machines Herbert's made. Backlash was eliminated by a wire rope and a sack of scrap iron hanging over a roller at the end of the table.

Martin

Edited By Oily Rag on 29/10/2021 07:51:48

Alfred Herberts' had an Indian based subsidiary which made the older Herbert machines for sale in India and the Asian sub-continent. It was overseen by AH employees who went out there to maintain standards and quality. My understanding of the operation, when I was an AH employee, was that it was considered to be a 'Jewel in the Crown' operation which produced high quality machines. I would expect that any machine made there, whether badged as Herbert, Holbrook, Edgwick, or Attritor (a unique pulveriser!), would be the equal of any made in the Edgwick works in Coventry.

Herberts had numerous subsidiaries based all around the world. From memory there were factories in Brazil, Australia, and India. Employee's were often seconded to these far away 'stations' to work for a number of years, I had a fellow ex-apprentice who was seconded to Brazil for a 3 year contract - he went 'native' whilst out there, married a Brazilian and never returned! Happy days!!

Martin

Looks like I have 'cracked it'!

The equivalent Jacobs Rubberflex code to the Tapmatic code is 'J117' for the Tapmatic 2.5 to 4.5 collet, which is Tapmatic ref. '21700' and 'J115' for the smaller Tapmatic ref '21500'.

Seems to be a logic in that somewhere!

Martin

Rocol Moisture Guard! Green semi drying spray used by most grinding companies to protect finishes which rust surprisingly quickly at this time of year. Good for 5 years - so it says on the tin. Just checked my reground lathe ways, which are in the shed wrapped in grease proof paper, and they are perfect.

Cleans off easily with brake cleaner or white spirit.

Martin

Does anyone have a cross reference, or link to one on'tinterweb, between Tapmatic collet numbers and their Jacobs Rubberflex equivalents? I have a 'J116' which is marked up as a 2.5 to 4.5 ?Shank dia in mm? and that looks to be the small size for the Model 30 TC/DC Tapmatic listed as a Tapmatic part number 21600. I'm looking for the 4.5 to 6.5 collet which is a 21700 Tapmatic part number but my local engineering suppliers only recognise the 'Jacobs' designation. They have a 'J421' in stock which is indeed a 4.5 to 6.5 size but I think this is a larger collet than my tapping head will accommodate. I'm also after a Tapmatic 21500 which is the baby for this head at 1.0 to 2.5 capacity.

Regards

Martin

That cylinder head in the JA Productions video picture posted above looks uncannily like the one you are machining! How much did you get paid for / did you pay for the rust removal?

As Howard says, protect the lip during fitting.

A R23 (double lip seal ) can be run in a nominally dry situation by a smear of grease between the two lips, amazing how a little lube can last a long time.

Martin

Ian,

There are sealed bearings which are 'agricultural duty' which are designed with in built double sealing. These are commonly used on applications such as slurry pumps (slurry being a 'nice' word for the element SH 1T ) where they are exposed to slurry on one side and have the bearing element on the other side. They are also available in stainless steel for added corrosion resistance. Check out RS for something similar to stk no. 893-7458 (20 x 32 x 7) they are available in smaller sizes down to 6 mm shaft sizes.

Martin

Sorry to resurrect this thread but I'm stumped for the wiring of the remote controls for this VFD.

I managed to find and download an operators instruction manual for the DZB100 variant, which seems to be a higher spec unit with more controls on the in built keypad, specifically in addition to RUN and STOP the 100 model has FWD, REV, JOG and more flashy lights!

I managed to wire up my 3 phase motor (U,V,W connections ) and brought in the single phase supply to the L and N terminals and to keep the 'Elfins 'appy I also connected the earths. Switched it on and pressed start - motor ran as expected after a short ramp up of around 2 secs, 50.00Hz displayed on the readout. Pressed stop and motor ramped down. So far so good.

Looking at the terminals shown below, there are what I assume to be the potentiometer connections circled in red. Fairly straight forward with a feed, signal (wiper) and signal ground. This will give me a remote speed control. No question here!

Going now to the terminals circled in Yellow - these are numbered L to R as 10,12,13, 14,15, &16 (oddly no number 11 ) As will be seen 10 and 13 are linked and again I am assuming this is a hard wired 'FWD' connection but I am at a loss as to how to identify 'REV' and 'JOG' - my logic tells me linking 10 to 12 may reverse the motor, presumably 10 to either 14.15. or 16 will JOG. Or 2 of that combination may be 'set speed 1, set speed 2'

The terminals circled by the Lilac highlight are a bit of a mystery, Basically what are A, B, C and E liable to be? AFM I understand from the DZB100 manual is for a Analog Frequency Meter (quaint thing! ) but a Digital meter can be used from this connector by 'bit' change in the Function programme. Could the lettering 'AC 1 25V 3A' conceivably be a LoVo light output??

The terminal Y1 is a mystery - is it Y as in 3 phase connection for 220V??

Any ideas would be gratefully received, I have a Fluke DVM to analyse the signals. A selection of switches, lights and buzzers to complement an RS aluminium remote box connected all by Raychem 66 shielded wiring is waiting to be wired up. Just need to work it all out!

BTW - there is a 10V - 5V jumper just to the top left of centre of the Lilac circle. Currently set at 10V

Martin

Frank,

That is an interesting alternative to the oilite bush. Think I'll look into that as a possible alternative for a future update if this doesn't work out.

The problem seems to be the ash is rather like talcum powder and gets into everything. The sealed (2RS) bearings have been upgraded to 'agricultural' specification with stainless races and tracks and a double lip seal and are for use in slurry pump applications, so we will see how good they are in 6 months or so.

The replacement BDMS was much better and has about a 0.15mm bow over an unsupported 1 metre length, and without the twist. I machined it last night and it is not warping so looks 'good to go'. The size is better as well, as the bearings fell onto the original dogs leg BDMS, but is now a nice sliding fit.

I have some 1" and 1.5" dia by 10ft lengths of BD which literally 'fell off the back of a lorry' when a mate was following it down a country lane (he nearly went in the ditch trying to avoid the tumbling bars! ). He picked up 12 lengths and gave me half of them. Interesting that they have been pretty accurate despite their 'poor handling' history. They are not MS though as the colour code suggests they are EN16 or so.

Martin

Mick,

I'll dig it out and PM you as to what is there.

Martin

Mike,

I have the remnants of a 'partial' set of Hunger seat cutting tools and there may be an instruction manual buried in the box with those remnants. I had it a long time ago and used it regularly, then someone borrowed it and when it came back I foolishly didn't check the contents! It went with a Hunger valve lathe that was a beautiful little thing, single point valve seat cutting at any angle desired.

I'll dig it out the shed and look as soon as I get the chance.

Martin

Thanks for all the replies, and yes I guess it was in tolerance according to Jason's data. Although the bend was 0.2mm (0.008" ) in the centre of a piece 140mm long (i.e both ends touching the surface plate and an 0.008" feeler gauge inserted beneath in the centre )

Although the machine is not what you would describe as a 'precision' piece of engineering it has run for a number of years on the original design (which, to be honest, I never liked in the first place as the shaft was effectively overhung too far from the flanged self aligning bearing at the base of the drum - the oilite bearing was pitiful ). I wanted to support both extremities of the shaft but in this small machine it is difficult to achieve - a much larger machine with multiple contra rotating blades on 3 shafts has worked from day one without any trouble. These shafts are end supported. Guess next time I upgrade another I'll have to go for 22mm (7/8th) and turn it down for its whole length or get some centreless ground bar.

The 'cremulator' by the way is a machine for reducing the rather large 'clinker' left over post cremation into a neat pile of dust for storage in a jar on the mantlepiece! Horses are the most difficult needing the big ones, the small ones are for Pussies and Rover. Humans come in between.

Martin

Edited By Oily Rag on 14/10/2021 21:33:07

I have been asked to make a re-designed blades and shaft for a cremulator (do you really want to know what that is? ) as the current system regularly suffers from failed bearings on a 6 monthly basis. The current design has a 1.2kW motor driving a vertical shaft and supported by a flanged self aligning bearing outside of a drum, inside the drum the shaft is supported by a flanged oilite bush which quickly degrades with the abrasive nature of the contents. The blade bosses are attached via a 4mm keyway and grub screws.

I have therefore upgraded the blade shaft from 13mm to a 20mm shaft and changed the design to a square form for the blade locations. Blade bosses will be laser cut to give a square internal form, grub screws are deleted and the whole assembly is clamped by a M16 threaded nut on the shaft end. Under the bottom boss is a 8042RS sealed ball race in stainless within an alloy housing clamped to the drum base and a suitable 'O' ring sealing under this.

I ordered some 20mm BDMS and proceeded to cut to length and centre the ends prior to machining a keyway for the Fenner bottom drive adaptor (this is currently 20mm dia in the original design so making the whole shaft 20mm seemed a good idea and saved on the machining required ). When I came to cut the keyway I found the shaft was bent, making the square section an odd shape! as the flats of the square do not fully meet their adjacent flats. I then checked the bar and found it was bowed by 0.2mm over 140mm length (0.008" over 5 1/2" ). Picking up the rest of the bar it was twisted and bent - I took the piece back to the metal suppliers and asked for a decent bit of 20mm BDMS that wasn't like a dog's back leg, they had to dig out some old stock that was something like acceptable. The boss was muttering about the quality of the material they had been receiving lately and showed me a length of Aerospace specification alloy bar which had visible inclusions on the surface, and showed me a internal void exposed where they had cut the material for a RR order.

What is the generally accepted allowance for straightness in BDMS? The diameter was pretty low at 0.04mm undersize, the old stock was much better at 0.01mm under.

Two guesses at where the material originated!

Martin

Without any doubt the best cutters are Neway. They have an expanding pilot system that accurately locates the cutters concentric to the valve guide and are carbide multi tooth diagonal serrated faced blades. Remove stock with the minimum of effort. They also come in a range of angles (15, 30, 45, 60 and 75 ) to triple angle the seat - the angles for the 'seating' cutter are also set 1/2 degree off to give top end location to the valve mating face. Expensive but the only system to use other than a motorised Hunger single blade valve seat bench, which is eye wateringly expensive.

The agent used to be based in Oxfordshire.

Do not lend a Neway to anyone!

Martin