Member postings for Ramon Wilson

'Intro'

In 1962 I joined the army. On the train from Waterloo station to Aldershot I got talking to a young chap about my own age from Melton Mowbray . When we got to Aldershot he got up as I did - it turned out that not only were we both signing up but we were both enlisting in the Parachute Regiment. Needless to say we became good friends and stuck together throughout the arduous training. In the platoon behind us was a young guy called Dave Jeffries who had recognised my Lowestoft accent. Along with another Dave we four were really great mates and we were all posted to D Company 3 Para in Jan 1963. Amazingly all four of us were in the same platoon - No11 - too.

Eventually Army life saw us go our separate ways but Dave Jeffries and I stayed in vague touch over the years.

He moved up this way to Norfolk and had a job as Head groundsman at a Holiday camp in Gt Yarmouth.

'Situation'

One morning he is cutting a hedge in front of a chalet. Holiday maker comes out and begins to chat. Tells Dave he's from Melton Mowbray, Dave mentions being in the Army with a guy from MM. What were you in asks the chap. When Dave says 3 Para he responds with "It wouldn't be a Mick Naylor would it by any chance ?

So after some forty plus years three of the four of us met up again.

As Bazle says a window of opportunity so small as to be unimaginable but occasionally it happens.

Here we are just after joining 3 para on a bit of leave during a winter training and exercise in Winnepeg Feb 1963. L-R Dave Jeffries, Dave Taylor, Myself and Mick Naylor

Dave W mentioned Sharjah - I found this pic passed to me of our battle camp there circa 1964/5. Apologies for the squaddie annotation. Just the way it was back then. No showers but a tiny drop of fresh water daily for shaving in - the sea for everything else

Best - Tug

Ha ha - here we go again. Sorry guys but this ones been done to death for me so I'll bow out gracefully on the technicalities .

I will say this though from a personal point of view. Whilst I think I can understand the theory behind the thin nut first having the thin nut on top always looks aesthetically better to my mind - wrong or not.

I guess in the end it boils down to whether you are are 'nuts on top' or 'nuts below' kind of person.

A couple of scenarios -

Model on display with the 'correct' thin nut underneath method. Inquisitive visitor asks why the nuts are the wrong way round. Watch their eyes glaze over as you try to explain why.

Model on display with nuts thin nut on top. 'Knowledgeable' visitor proceeds to tell you you have the nuts on the wrong way. You tell visitor - in a polite manner of course - that whilst fully aware of the theory they are that way because it's your model and you prefer them that way

Bye for now on this one.

Doc - we were North Wales visitors on a regular basis for many years and saw all weathers. Most memorable was sitting on one top in lovely sunshine watching a vicious storm take place on another not that far away. Looks like you have some nice weather - enjoy it

Best - R

The nut on top or below is a bit of an old chestnut Hopper that's more than done enough of it's share of the rounds eh?

I have an open mind on the subject but it's interesting to hear it's a 20th century thinking and not before, something I was not aware of. That would help explain the lack of it's appearance (thin on bottom) in so many of the images I have.

Hmmm! that now makes my Corliss engine pre 1900

Tug

I made one for doing some deep fins on a cylinder head. I don't have any dimensions to hand but this is what it looked like. The blade was clamped by small cap head screws, the holder then held in a Dickson Quick Change Tool Holder as normal

It's quite a while back but I think I hand ground the end of a slot drill to give the slight angle (dovetail) on both lips which worked well enough to give a good grip on the blade.

Hope that's of help

Tug

Assuming your register is running true my usual technique Dougie is to set the steady in the required point and bring the two lower fingers to touch firmly without putting any upwards pressure on to move the part upwards then lock both fingers. Best to put a clock on to see if that shows any movement. Then bring the frame down and close it tightly and bring the top finger(s) the same way. A squirt of oil before starting the lathe helps avoid any score marks if the material is softer than the fingers.

Works for me but others may offer an alternative - looking at your album you shouldn't have any problems I'm sure

Best - Tug

Ha! The power of Google - 'BRICKPLAYER' -

I never had the desire for one but had a schoolmate who did. Quite a messy thing as I remember.

Tug

Meccano was my first love from age 4 until stick and tissue models were discovered age 11 but AJET is a new one on me

I remember BAKO on the rods but what was the house building set that actually used miniature bricks and mortar?

I'm afraid Keil Kraft was my downfall!

Tug

Doc, a small tip.

Where the eccentrics (and pulley) sit turn a shallow slot just wide enough for the grub screws to sit. Use a dog point on one and a cone point on the other screw. Use the dog point one for initial setting and once established tighten the cone point to fix it's position securely. By turning a shallow groove you won't deface the surface of the shaft with the grub screws.

You can slot the flywheel in the lathe easily enough but getting the two exactly 120 degrees apart won't be unless you can move and lock the head the desired amount - not easy on an ML7with it's 65 tooth bull wheel unless you have a dividing method that locates in the rear of the spindle.

Personally I'd just do the one if the dividing becomes an issue.

Have a safe journey - looks like you might get some rain

Washers under its nuts? Now that's a painful condition Neil!

Jason when I said multiple keyways I was referring to radially as some full size flywheels had.

I don't key the cranks as most, though not all of course, had the crank webs shrunk on. Unless for scale representation there is no need - a close Loctite fit and pinned preferably from the end of the crank web and not through the side - is more than adequate.

Though eccentrics should be keyed the position has to be pretty accurate radially - one instance where a socket grub screw is definitely beneficial when setting the valves so yes I do 'cheat' there. If a small hole through the eccentric strap on the centreline can be accepted then the strap does not have to be removed for altering the position when setting takes place.

John if the cover is as hard as it would appear likely you could try annealing it. The secret for success on that for cast iron is allowing it to cool as slowly as possible.

If you have, or can source, some fine ash from a fire this is about the best you can get for a home job.

Heat the ash in a container as hot as possible then heat the component to a good, uniform, bright red heat. Form a cavity in the ash and drop the cover into it and rapidly cover it over with a good thick layer of ash. Just leave it to cool right out as long as possible. Don't be tempted to pull it out to check it too soon as you may risk chilling it again! Though it will look pretty crappy once done you won't damage it and you can do it again if necessary.

Here's my simple set up for treating bearing balls so they can be drilled for governor weights

Hot dry fine sand will do the same but you need to slowly reduce the heating of the sand to get a good result - ash is much the better.

Doing it in a barbeque is another option - just let in cool away from any breeze in the embers but you have less control over the situation.

Personally I'd go for the ash treatment every time

Tug

I can't recall how it's shown on the drawing Doc and couldn't remember whether I used a key(s) or not.

Found the answer here in this image!

A compromise at best, if I recall correctly there were three at 120degrees and as with the governor belt something that always irritated and I wished I'd done something better.

On the Corliss I tried to replicate full size practice and use eight slipper keys - four shallow slots at 90 degrees in the flywheel

The shaft has four flats milled on and the flywheel held in place by four keys each side

I confess there is a well disguised grub screw in there holding the wheel from any lateral movement !

That may be of interest to you. The big thing with multiple conventional key ways is ensuring they are all in line with each other - slipper keys give you a small but helpful sideways leeway.

Afraid so Chris - asking for help goes without question on here but not giving the full story just leads to frustration on the part of those trying to help you.

You give us more questions than the one you seek an answer to.

As I said previously what is it you are cutting with this chisel ? A hard surface could mean anything.

Unless you are doing anything illegal try us - we're here to help but not if you can't help yourself by being open with us

Tug

If the bearings are tinned beforehand the amount of solder is minimal and is easily cleaned off by a gentle swipe over some fine wet and dry paper on a flat surface using paraffin as a lube.

The ideal belts for governor drive are those for turntable drives. They come in various widths and lengths in a flat thin section black rubber with a reasonable stretch but not always available in the length appropriate for the need. I have never tried to cut and join one. The good thing is they don't appear to degrade readily - my oldest, on the Waller engine, still in good shape after many years. An ebay search will find you some I'm sure. I have them in 3mm, 4mm and 5mm wide on the engines with governors.

This is the one that I used on the Corliss engine

On the Twin Victoria - long before I discovered these belts I used O ring material and always wished I hadn't. The joint constantly broke and it never ever did look right. Even the flat belt is a compromise but it does at least look the part

Ideally as said before the shaft would be best made with differing diameters to suit each item it carries. That way none effect the surface for the next as they are slid into position on it.

The single grub screw retention of the flywheel is a real no no from a scale perspective but by using four, much smaller ones, at 90 degrees to each other they can easily be disguised.

Have a great break

Best - R

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 24/07/2022 16:41:22

So when do we get to which locknut nut goes on first !!!

I have quite a few books on industrial stationary engines and it's quite an eye opener when you look at the various images to see where the 'right' way is used - quite rarely in fact.

Same with washers - I prefer not to use them but it's a good point on spoiling the paint however a tip to help prevent that is to chamfer the lower corners of the nuts before fitting. Usually quite successful providing it's not 'graunched' up home

Nice work Doc - get to it

Ah yes I did Jason, but was mislead by Johns post that said .....

All surfaces of this casting were machined prior to this part of the task so there was not any scale remaining. Even the gland part was drilled and tapped with HSS without any drama, and also the 70 thou hole at the back that I had anticipated would be a problem, but in the event was not.

I certainly agree that shiny, bright areas usually indicate hard spots but I would still have another go if possible using a newly ground drill at much - much - lower speed than would usually be considered. There's nothing to lose - if the casting has been spoiled so be it but it's worth trying to drill through at a slower pace just to try to establish if speed was the culprit or not - who knows it might be reclaimable.

It's a personal view of course but I do think many machine cast iron at far to high cutting speeds, carbide or HSS - my 'little book' shows 50-60 FPM for HSS but I would say for the most part I'm machining around 40 FPM.

One things for sure if it is chilled then its chilled - it could be annealed and retried from the back if so, depends if the wait time from Stuarts is too long to bear.

I can't think of a better reason for making things from nice, homogenous, continuous cast iron material and getting the JBW out

As others have said only the tip requires to be heat treated but the steel does have to be suitable to take the blow forces involved. To harden and temper such a long thin item to a consistent and known degree would require more than using a torch and a domestic oven I fear.

What you haven't told us is what you are using the chisel on - if steel then how much are you trying to remove and how hard or tough is the material itself being cut

The image you show shows a very fine taper to the cutting edge which probably lead to the tip shattering - a cold chisel is quite obtuse - though the exact correct angle of which I have no idea.

I have a little chisel made from 6mm silver steel but it's use is within it's limitations - possibly you are asking too much of the dimensions you give in it's requirements.

Just some thoughts - hope you find a successful outcome

Tug

Hello John

I'm a bit late for the parade on this one but reading through your first and second posts leads me to thinking that possibly the drilling speeds were too fast for cast?

If the steam chest/cover were machined beforehand - presumably with HSS - then the hard spots would have been quite noticeable at that point.

Cast at the best of times, needs a slow cutting speed with HSS so it's easy to overdo this on a drill if you cannot get the revs down. It's a self exacerbating exercise - too higher speed (RPM) leads to friction, leads to heat build up, leads to cutting edge degrading requiring more downward pressure leading to the whole thing repeating to such an extent the material hardens and consequently repeating itself at a rapid rate

That said obviously a hard surface will kick the whole thing off quite rapidly too.

You may have the potential to save your pieces John - if it's possible to set the steam chest up in the mill and drill from the other side on the same coordinates. Sometimes doing this will loosen a broken drill and allow the hole to be reclaimed. I don't know what the bottom speed is on your drill if you were using a drill press but on my Fobco it's 400 RPM - usually way too fast in such a situation as you have.

Starting a hole with much lower speed under control of a mill is definitely the way to approach this. Use one part as a drill guide to spot the other - drill separately.

I've had the odd hard spot to deal with over the years - if it's really hard then it's a devil to get over but most times, though not all, reducing rotational speed - considerably - will get you over the issue

Hope that helps some

Good luck with it

Tug

Ah I see - senior moment on my part.

Plus one on Jason's advice to have everything prepped. It's one thing to be able to rely on a decent lathe but a well used Myford may not produce the same reliability

Good luck with it however you do it - just a reminder that the cranks will need to be a good fit on their respective diameters and preferably against a shoulder. I would Loctite and pin them - more than sufficient for this project.

Just so we are not at crossed purposes I set this up an hour or so ago but was distracted on the F4!

This shows the test bar I made years ago. Ignore the finish between the measurement areas - that can be as rough as you want. Ignore the rust too - very rare to find anything rusty in the shed but it's been hiding for quite a while.

Take a shaving cut at this end to true the test area

Without moving the tool move the saddle to cut the other end at the same setting

By relieving the area between the test areas this speeds the whole process up

Not sure what you mean here either Jason - the bar would be faced and centred initially - that plays no further part. The only thing to be cut is the two end pieces on their diameters