Member postings for Roger Vane

Hi Chris

I have both a Vertex K4 and a Warco DH1 and find that they both have their uses - really depends on what you intend to make as to which way you go. I've fitted tenons to the bottom of both vices so swapping over is quick and straightforward.

The DH1 is a brilliant, accurate piece of kit and is very versatile - it's overall jaw opening of 175mm vs the 63mm of the K4 sold it to me. It's not cheap if you buy it with the optional vee-jaws and high jaws (around £240 total) but these increase it's versatility tremendously.

In use the DH1 is a bit more restrictive regarding headroom (spindle nose to table) as the VMC isn't exactly over-endowed with headroom. The distance table to base of jaws is 93mm for the DH1 vs the K4's 76mm (with the swivel base in place in both cases) - not a lot but as the ad says "every little helps".

Probably the best approach is to consider carefully what you intend to make and make your purchase accordingly. If you can afford to buy both then that has to be a good option and maybe a deal can be done with Warco. After all they could both be delivered together reducing carriage costs.

On the subject of moving the machine into your workshop, it may be worth talking to Warco to see how they would move the machine as I believe that they offer an installation service. I'd be interested to know how you tackle the job - maybe you could make a posting to this forum.

Regards, Roger

Edited By Roger Vane on 23/10/2012 13:15:56

Hi Chris

Height of VMC stand is 530mm. Advise that you check the pitch of the holding down bolt holes on machine and stand before trying to move the machine itself. Warco sent the wrong stand with my machine and the pitch of the holes was different - a problem they quickly rectified.

All-up weight of the machine with stand is quoted to be 415 kg (930 lbs) and it's awkward. Yours may be a bit heavier and more awkward because of the DRO (and you will need to take care not to damage that). I used an engine crane and strop to move the machine, but if taking this approach you will need a good surface without any steps, etc. Because of headroom problems in the workshop I had to remove the head and moving the head alone took the efforts of 3 reasonably strong men (and that was after I had removed the motor). You'll also need to route the strop so that when the machine is lifted it remains relatively upright as you're handling it and locating it on the stand.

Would also advise that you put some silicon sealant between the machine and the stand. In all the excitement I forgot to do this and suffer coolant leaks into the cabinet on the odd occasion that I use the coolant pump. Will need to lift the machine and fix this problem before too long.

Roger

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Hi Chris

The bottom 2 pictures show the upper part of the Z-axis scale with the reading head. The scale is attached to the main column casting whilst the reading head is attached to the knee. The detail on your system may be different as my scales are Machine-DRO and yours will be Warco.

If and when you decide to fit the Z-axis scale then create another post on this thread and I'll take a few more pictures. (I've bookmarked the thread so I'll receive notification e-mails).

Hi Chris

Pleased that you've changed the order to 3-axis - don't think that you'll regret it.

The amount of use that the Z-axis gets will very much depend on the class of work that you intend to do with the machine, but personally I use the Z all of the time (possibly because I've got it). You'll have the same degree of accuracy with the Z-axis as you do with the X and Y, and much better than the quill dial and stops. You'll also have all of the benefits of the DRO console such as alternative zeros, 1/2 function, absolute / incremental, etc.

As for fitting the Z-axis scale, there was a thread that I contributed to last year regarding stops to the X-axis. On this thread you will see some photos which include the Z scale which my help you some time in the future **LINK**

Hi chris j

Congratulations on your purchase of a VMC - hope that you enjoy many happy hours using it.

Sorry to dampen your enthusiasm, but I would be concerned about the lack of Z-axis readout and fear that you may come to regret that decision fairly early on. Admittedly the Z-axis is probably the least frequently 'moved', but moved it will be. Also, remember that it's you using the machine over many years and not the salesman.

A good compromise might be to buy the 3-axis console even though you are only fitting scales to X and Y at this stage. Looking at the Warco website the price difference between a 2-axis console and a 3-axis console is only £54, which is very much cheaper than replacing the console to upgrade to 3-axis. Might be worth considering as a 'future-proofing' exercise.

Whatever you decide - good luck and enjoy your machine.

Roger

Hi Chris S

Agreed and I nearly mentioned that - except for the quill downfeed handle and downfeed stop scale for the quill on the VMC. These would be graduated in metric or imperial. Depends on how important the units are to you.

Roger

Hi Chris

Just had a look at my 'budget' for the job - think that the cost of the inverter, control station with extra cable, carriage and VAT (15% at the time) was £283 although that was about 3 years ago - if I had added in the cost of replacing the motor it would have been considerably more.

A quick call to John at Newton Tesla would confirm present costs and I'm sure that he will send you an information pack. (By the way, just for the sake of fairness there are other suppliers of this kit - adverts in ME / MEW).

You might also like to check that Warco can still offer an R8 / 3 ph machine to special order if you are going for an imperial machine.

Roger

Hi Chris

You don't need a 3 phase supply to the workshop - the inverter does the conversion from single phase to three phase for you and allows you to vary the frequency, and hence the spindle speed. The inverter also maintains torque right down to fairly low revs making the whole set-up very usable.

By the way, the motor spec is 240v, and that is what Warco ordered for me.

Roger

Hi Chris

Totally agree with the comments about R8 - much easier and kinder.

If you are buying new there is something else that you might like to consider. When I ordered my VMC the plan was to fit an inverter to give variable speed. I discussed this with Warco and they made a special order for R8 / Imperial / 3 phase. (I think that 3 phase metric is a standard offering). It took around 6 months to arrive which suited me as I was moving the workshop at the time.

I ordered an inverter and control station from Newton Tesla which was easy to fit - even for someone who doesn't understand the 'black art' of electrics. The benefit of ordering the 3 phase machine was that I didn't have to spend a load of cash replacing the single phase motor, which went a long way towards paying for the DRO.

The benefit of the inverter drive is that you can vary the speed with the twist of a dial - no belt changing which is a great time saver. It also allows for jog and forward / reverse which is great for tapping under power. The result is that I've probably changed the belts for that 'special job' less than 10 times in the last 3 years.

You'll find that the DRO and inverter drive will put the standard VMC into a different class.

Roger

Hi John

Just tested on Internet Explorer 9 (running on Windows 7) without any problems.

Regards

I've got the Allen keys, but I'm struggling to find a source of 8BA socket grub screws (length unimportant).

Does anyone know of a source for these tiny screws?

Roger

I had rented an Air Products oxygen cylinder for years, but when the advice of the next year's rental came in at £120 I decided that things had to change.

Admittedly this was a large cylinder, but I hadn't exchanged it for 9 years or so and it was still two-thirds full, so I could afford to downsize and hopefully save some cash. In addition to the annual rental, Air Products impose a handling charge when exchanging the cylinder - expensive when collecting and even more expensive for delivery. Another annoyance was that their agents are now few and far between.

So, I needed to look for something smaller (and hopefully cheaper to rent). I'd started thinking about the future - maybe I'd go back to BOC and see what they could offer - at least they had a more suitable network of agents than Air Products.

Then I found a reference to a company by the name of 'Adams Gas' on this forum which made interesting reading. Adams are based in Margate, Kent and operate through distributors - there are a number of these in Kent and some further afield. The interesting thing about Adams is that you don't pay an annual rental charge, neither are there any handling charges. All you pay is an one-off up-front payment which is fully refundable at any point in time should you no longer wish to keep the cylinder - this charge is currently £55.

Looking at the Adams website - www.adamsgas.co.uk - I found that I could get an oxygen cylinder for £36 (inc VAT) plus the up-front payment of £55. Admittedly the cylinder is much smaller than the one I had and it is filled to a lower pressure (137 bar as opposed to around 200 bar) but it appeared to be a good solution to my problem. The real test will be when building a boiler and seeing how many refills will be required, but this only happens occasionally and I'm already in profit.

Adams list various gases under the heading of 'Hobby Gas' which includes MIG welding mixes as well as the oxygen - they don't offer acetylene. Their cylinders use the same regulator fittings as BOC, Air Products and Air Liquide, so no problems there.

Depending on where you live the Adams Gas may also be worth considering.

Good luck.

I've had one of these vices for about 18 months now, and I must say that I'm very pleased with it. The capacity is amazing and the vice is accurate and very versatile, especially with the optional vee-jaws and high-jaws.

The only problems that I've found are that due to the height of the vice (in it's full swivelling mode) the headroom available for tooling is reduced and also it is somewhat less rigid than a standard swivel base vice such as the Vertex K4 when taking heavy cuts.

With reference to the jaws not closing parallel, this is due to the clearance holes when bolting the loose jaw to the base - the trick here is to gently close the vice onto the workpiece and only then fully tighten the capscrews holding the loose (no tenon) jaw before tightening the vice fully. If you do this, my experience is that you will find that the grip is awesome.

Good luck with your vice, and I hope that you will find it as useful as I do.

Regards

Roger

Hi Steve

As requested, here are a few photos of my DRO installation.

X-axis

The scale is attached into the existing stop ‘slot’ and then the new stop system is attached outboard of this, also into the existing slot. I made new dovetail nuts as those fitted to the machine were not very good and I also needed 2 more to attach the stop bar – the dovetail angle is 20 degrees inclusive and from memory are tapped M5.

The stop bracket is basically ‘U’ shaped made from 3 pieces of alloy bar – one of the ‘uprights’ is screwed onto the machine saddle and the reader head is then screwed onto that – this gave the correct alignment of scale and reader head (after a little fine adjustment with the jacking screws). The stop itself is then attached to the horizontal member.

There was just sufficient space to attach the scale, reader head and stop bracket when using the slim scale – the standard scales would just be too large for this to be viable on the VMC.

I cut a T-slot in the new stop bar and made T-nuts as I found that the original dovetail nuts had ‘self-locking’ properties which would be irritating to use.

The installation was completed with the addition of a sheet metal cover to protect the scales.

The only problem that I’ve found with this installation is that the Z-axis feed handle hits the stop bar when the table is fully towards me and well to the left. This has not proved to be a serious problem.

As you can see from the photos it is still possible to fit table locking screws – I replaced the standard screws with adjustable handles. As for the electrical stops, I see no reason why these could not be retained if fitted with T-nuts and used on the new stop bar.

Y-axis

Marks on table

No problems so far, but I suspect that you’re correct and it wouldn’t take much to damage the surface.