Member postings for Weary

Or consider using 3/16 x 16swg (= .064" or 1/16" wall thickness) which is commonly available? Adjust threads and fittings (bushes etc.) to suit 1/32 diameter increase.

Regards,

Phil

As an addendum:

Zander-Heba have general arrangement drawings drawn at 1:40 scale of all the Prussian Br55 variants in their catalogue.

The 8.1 is here.

The 3 T 16.5 tender is here.

I only had a brief scan-about, but may be worth you having a good look round the site if you think the drawings may be useful, as, as written above, all the Prussian variants seem to be there.... example. I have not spotted the later DR 'heavier'(??) type, but I expect it may well be there somewhere. Maybe it is one of the types listed on this page showing equivalent classifications and a search in the 'Prussian Freight Locomotives' for the correct Prussian equivalent will turn-up suitable drawings. Alternatively you can ask Zander-Heba of course.

There is this copy of Eisenbahn Journal which is relevant if you do not have it. Click on the lower thumbnail labelled in red 'PDF Dateien' for an list of contents and an excerpt to show you what is in the mag' (Apologies if 'teaching grandmother to suck eggs'!). Maybe worth seeking out a copy if you prefer paper to an e-book..

The (seemingly!) definitive book is listed on this page. At a variety of prices - postage shown is within Germany, ask for UK rate. There is one listed on abebooks in the UK at present at just under £40 p&p included.

This site may whet your appetite. Look down the list on the left and click on 'lokliste', then click on Bundesbahn-/Reichsbahn-Dampflokomotiven & scroll down to the '55' section for a couple of pics of 5" gauge Br55.

And, lastly, there is this 5" gauge kit of the Br55, also available finished in 'Prussian' KPEV livery by Zimmermann. Don't know if they might be prepared to sell drawings, parts, whatever, etc.

Regards,

Phil

Hopefully your drawings you have are adequate to produce something that looks like the Baureihe 55, but if not - or you want further info' then it may be worth getting in touch with the German Railway Museum, Verkehrsmuseum Nurnberg, as well as trying Panki's Forum for leads. There are some detailed 'picture books' on the class of course as well as t'internet pics and youtube videos.  Basic drawing on this page for example (scroll down).

As you are probably aware, the 16.5 in the tender designation is the maximum water volume in cubic metres, it is very close to some other tender types, so maybe an adaptation of another type will serve you, and/or some common parts like underframe. So, by careful checking and reference you may be able to use or adapt other drawings for the tender if those you have are not adequate.

There may be some reasonably detailed drawings around in 5" gauge/scale as there are some models to this gauge around.

Best of luck,

Phil

Edited By Weary on 24/01/2019 22:29:16

Edited By Weary on 24/01/2019 22:34:43

Hello,

You may wish to try posting on Panki's Forum - if you have not already done-so - here.

Hans Wittmann has a few plans of German(ic) prototypes for live-steam, mostly in 5". garba.de , I have checked and they do not provide BR55, but the drawings for a suitable tender may be available. Maybe worth an email - perhaps you already know the tender designation(s?) as fitted to BR55?

Live steam service in Germany has castings for some popular 5" gauge German locos but does not 'do' drawings so far as I am aware, but if all else fails may be able to give some leads.

Regards,

Phil.

Thanks to all who replied. Your contributions individually and taken together have been very useful indeed to me.

Thanks to Dave and Neil for giving me the relevant formula, and in Neil's case directing me to where it can be found in The Model Engineer's Handbook. I had not considered that for mathematical modelling purposes a tube could be considered to be a long, thin, seamless boiler. Even though Andrew's response indicates that this may be a somewhat crude analogy and that reality is somewhat more complex I suspect that this 'approximate model' will suit my purposes.

I will probably use a thicker tube than the minimum because, as was pointed out, heating to silver-solder end-fittings will result in the tube being annealed rather than 'half-hard'. Study of the document suggested by Keith indicates that this reduces the burst pressure by around 40%. But then, a number of cycles of pressurising and de-pressurising the tube will (work) harden it again ..... so further research and consideration on my part required.

Anyway, I have the basic vocabulary now for better directed searching, so thanks again one-and-all for your assistance.

Regards,

Phil

I am interested in finding out what kind of pressure copper tube in the dimensions used in model engineering can withstand. I have looked in the usual suspects (AMBSC Code, Model Engineer's Handbook, & internet) in an attempt to find the maximum safe pressures without success.

My utilisation is as follows - but I am also interested in the general information for future use:

Half-hard copper tube 3/16 O/D for use in locomotive (cold) water boiler feed. Boiler max pressure 100lbs sq. in. Tube wall thicknesses available: 26, 22, 20, 18, 16 swg. There would be a significant advantage to using the thinnest tube possible.

Reference to this table & imaginative extrapolation would seem to indicate that 26 swg will more than adequate. Is this correct... or can you advise otherwise, or even give exact maximum safe pressure information for 'our' sizes of tube??

Regards,

Phil

Edited By Weary on 12/01/2019 15:13:48

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 13/01/2019 14:22:18

Hello,

A boiler blow-down valve is not needed for Tich. Access to any that you might fit on this loco is a bit tricky. Ideally you would want it/them on the front lower corner(s) of the water space in-front of the firebox. However with Tich this places it near the top of the very deep frames somewhere just forward and above the rear brake-hanger. Depending on your particular whim this area is blocked from above by the tanks. You could of course pierce a neat aperture in the frame to allow access, or arrange an operating lever somewhere convenient - especially if using an 'Everlast' style. I think you may find that access to the blow-down valve is also something that needs careful consideration on this particular loco. Not much help constructing your boiler with one - and then finding that you cannot get at it at all easily.

Regards,

Phil.

The angle of the cylinders was reduced to reduce the propensity of steeply angled cylinders to lift and lower the driven wheel with each thrust. The development of 'Rocket', the 'Northumbrian' class were built with the cylinders at the lower angle.

The Science museum produced a technical booklet about 'Rocket' some years ago which went into forensic detail over the remains as they are currently and showed that in its' short working life the loco underwent significant changes. Technological development of the steam locomotive was moving at such a pace that it was outmoded almost immediately upon entering service.

Regards,

Phil

Excellent results!

Can I ask where you got the wheel-gauge from? Or is it home-machined?

Regards,

Phil

The Aspinall J27 0-6-0 (LMS loco) seems to tick some of your boxes. Although it is from the other side of the country from Darlington, it may still be worth considering.

Regards,

Phil

Model Engineer Magazine Volume 169, Issue 3932, 5 - 19 November 1992, page 566 has a six-page pull-out section that seems to include a full set of component drawings and a construction description.

Regards,

Phil

M-Machine metals list it in their catalogue (CZ121). They catalogue up to 8" diam'.

Clicky-linky to home-page.

Regards,

Phil

And that link above takes me to a page tells me that I am using an unsupported browser & after some bullet-pointed spiel to please obtain another browser and try again.

But, actually I was using Internet Explorer version 11 (the last and fully supported) with all current updates. So, a fully up to date browser! Not good.

Regards,

Phil

Bill,

Blackgates can supply 1/8" x 22 gauge copper tube in 12" lengths. Maybe give them a call.

Likewise GLR.

I have a feeling that Polly can also supply.

+ off-topic - I bought those Vulcan drawings that you pointed me in the direction of. Thanks.

Regards,

Phil

Edited By Weary on 09/12/2018 22:20:48

One or more of the following may give some thoughts to start with and/or develop the discussion:

Help with cold steel blackening

Blackening mild steel

Blackening steel - Caswell Black-Ox kit

Am I blackening steel correctly?

Chemical blackening

Regards,

Phil

Edited By Weary on 28/11/2018 16:48:18

Bill,

Brass tube, 1" diameter x swg 22 (0.028", 0.75mm) is listed by M-Machine metals. He also stocks 20, 18,16, & 10 swg.

Regards,

Phil

Thank you for all the contributions. They have certainly given me plenty of leads for searches and I have a couple of books ordered.

To pick-up on Maurice's point that there are unusual features of the bracing and framing:

Westbury himself acknowledges that: "The engine is a little unusual in the design of the "entablature" or framing around the top of the beam supports and above the cylinder; in fact, it may be said to lack this feature, in its true sense altogether". Later he continues on the same theme, "In this case, a horizontal frame of U-shape attached at its ends to the tops of the A-frames, and at its centre to a vertical bar mounted on the cylinder, serves the purpose of the entablature."

The origin of the Vulcan (Westbury) design is attributed by him as follows: "The design.....is one based on an engraving found in a very dilapidated and dog-eared text-book on the steam engine dated 1847,........the design could not have been later than about 1830. It is in my opinion a fairly typical example of one of the earliest engines of all metal self-contained construction...". He subsequently continues "I may say at once that I have not attempted to adhere exactly to the details of the prototype."

Of course the existence of an artists(?) drawing doesn't mean that such an engine was ever constructed, however I'm assuming that the most glaring errors and artistic interpretations would have been picked-up by the original editors and subsequently Westbury himself.

Thanks for the excellent pics Neil. These would suggest to me that manufacturers had 'basic' castings that they used for a style/size of engine. If a boss was not required by a particular customer usage then it was simply not used. But it was always there for those that specified a use that would require it, or as you pointed out, for subsequent additions and alterations. I would guess that this casting 'kit of fundamental parts' would allow costs to be minimised; whilst there are some splendid decorated 'architectural style' engines, in general I can't see Victorian industrialists wanting to pay anything but the absolute minimum for a machine that would be 'hidden' in the smallest possible space and never seen by any but the 'driver' and repairers.

Regards,

Phil

All the dimensions of Don Ashton's improved valve gear design for Speedy can be found here. (As linked to above.)

Regards,

Phil

Neil,

I suspect that your observation is absolutely correct as it seems to me that these early engines were each built individually, albeit around a basic form, to meet each individual customer's requirements. As you observed in your interesting example, engines were then further altered by the client (for whatever reasons) meaning that no two engines were alike.

However, in his introduction to the Vulcan model Westbury writes, "I am dead against the type of model so often seen, which may bear a superficial resemblance to an early type and embody similar basic principles, but is hopelessly out of proportion in its components, and full of anachronisms in details and constructional methods".

In the course of the series Westbury gives a number of options but doesn't give much detail. He acknowledges this in the final part in writing, " Perhaps I may be criticised for the number of alternatives and modifications in the design which I have described as permissible.......".

Maybe sixty years ago when the articles were written many model engineers were better informed than I am (not difficult!) and knew where and how the diverse options would be arranged. However, the prototype design was over 120 years old even then and I can only find one example of the Vulcan built with a 'non-basic' layout, which suggests to me that few know the disposition of the options. I am totally ignorant of beam engines, so before creating too-much scrap I thought that it might be best to canvas more knowledgeable members of the forum in order to keep any model 'in character' to Westbury's design and also so as not to distress his spirit too much!

Regards,

Phil

Ian,

Thanks for your suggestion. My thankfully extremely limited experience of such individuals is that they can be rather over-persistent. I was going to cite Jason as my authority for whatever I did - I'm sure that he has broad shoulders (), but undoubtedly your suggestion is better as it wouldn't bring his reputation into (potential) disrepute!

I have also received much information privately from another forum-member giving me very useful information and details of Cornish beam-engine layouts, so I have plenty of options and ideas to mull-over.

Regards,

Phil.