Member postings for Weary

Prince Charming before he was kissed?

Ref: 'The Frog Prince' by Brothers Grimm.

Yours, hopping to it,

Phil

Edited By Weary on 20/06/2019 11:44:30

'A Century of Locomotive Building by Robert Stephenson & Co. 1823/1923', by J G H Warren, publisher David and Charles/Heritage ISBN: 978-1-4463-0586-7 has quite a bit of information about these locomotives. Pages 286 & 287 have detail drawings of the valve-gear for the 2-2-0 version. The drawing on page 286 is an elevation and end-view/section drawn at approx. 6mm to the foot, page 287 has various components including some parts for valve-gear drawn at 10mm to the foot and 15mm to the foot. There are also drawings of some of the valve-gear components and layout (I think for the 2-2-0 version) on page 278 drawn at 12mm to the foot. There is also a written description of the valve-gear and working on page 286.

There is a sectioned drawing of the 0-4-0 version showing the valves and valve-gear on page 283 at 6mm to the foot.

There are a number of more general views of the Planet loco's in the book.

All the above drawings are (reduced) copies of period originals from various sources and referenced so that you can go to the original documents if necessary (and if they are accessible!).

I see that the National Railway Museum has a number of 'Planet' drawings dotted around on their listing of drawings available from the Robert Stephenson & Co. archive. These will be copies of original drawings. A look through these may turn-up something useful

Regards & Best of luck,

Phil

If you have not already spotted them, Zander-Heba have drawings of some of the variants at 1:40 scale. Those available are listed on that site under their Prussian class types, G7.3 & G8.2 & G8.3. Tenders attached to these locos were 3 T 16.5, 3 T 20 or 2'2' T 21.5.

If you wanted to model a loco in the 56.2->8 series then you would have to source further information as the boiler is on different mountings being further forward and higher. I think!

As I'm sure you know there are a number of videos of the preserved Tr5-65 (= war reparation BR56 to Poland) on youtube.

Regards,

Phil

May be worth having a look at this build-thread of a 5" gauge version on Model Engineering Clearing House if you have not already found it.

Regards,

Phil

Hello Mr Dayman,

I apologise if I came across as 'snippy' in my comment about the reason for publication ceasing part-way through the series. That was certainly not my intention, sometimes though brevity can sound like terseness, and, of course, the written word lacks the subtleties inherent in the spoken word.

I do know the reason that the series stopped, I was in contact with Cliff Almond at the time of publication. Whilst there is no 'big secret' it would not be helpful to anyone to relive the past. My understanding is that unfortunately Mr Almond never progressed significantly beyond the point where publication ceased so there is never likely to be a continuation ...... unless a volunteer steps forward.

As you know there is enough basic information in the articles to set up the side-frames and the principal spacers, but beyond that 'you are on your own'. The 'separately sprung' chassis that carries the wheels is a bit of a 'puzzler' too, but a more conventional 'fixed' chassis could be fitted as so very little of it is visible under the side-skirts. I should have added to my posting above that 'my' drawings of the side-frames include holes for the prototypical 'separately sprung chassis' fixing/slides. There are a number of the locomotives still extant for reference, but as when running even the valve-gear and boiler-top drive are under covers one could adapt whatever one thought suitable if 'sheer grunt' rather than 'scale accuracy' was the preference. It would make a real brute of a loco in 7 1/4" gauge being a 'box' 1050mm long x 477mm wide x (approx.) 600mm high at that scale/gauge combination.

Perhaps you should 'bite the bullet' and have a go? Especially if you could perhaps work with Mr Foote, or of course anyone else interested, and thus share ideas. The whole thing can be built without castings and the boiler is a relatively simple marine type, though you could probably fit a round-top locomotive boiler albeit with a relatively shallow grate depth if that was your preference.  A bit of playing around with a very simple card-board mock-up might indicate possibilities more quickly than using a CAD package.   I only play with building my version 'on and off' (too many other projects!), and whilst I shall be getting some more parts laser-cut shortly these will not be directly scalable to 4" to the foot as 'my' distance between frames is rounded-up (1mm overall) to make arithmetic simpler in 'half-scale 2" to the foot'. Directly rescaling the 'between the frames parts' may (will!) affect the chassis dimensions and locations and furthermore the implications of this tiny difference are more significant than might appear superficially due to all the intersecting curves in these locomotives.

Regards,

Phil

Edited By Weary on 30/05/2019 22:56:36

Edited By Weary on 30/05/2019 23:07:08

Hello Mr Foote:

The last article on constructing this locomotive was published in ME as you state above, 14th November 2014. Here is a searchable index so that you can ensure that you have all the relevant parts available. You should note that there is a typo in the 'year of publication' given in the index, it should read 2014, not as 2004. The volume issues and page numbers are however correct - so far as I can see.

I think that you will find that there is plenty of room between the frames for the crank-shaft bearings, cylinders, valve-gear etc., after-all you have 270mm (10 1/2" approx.) width to play with! Depending on your exact valve-gear layout you may have to either marginally resize the boiler or drop it slightly. But, as the boiler in 4" to the foot scale (7 1/4" gauge) is going to be around 10" diameter you have some leeway In this too. The reason for publication ceasing was not as given in the response above.

If you intend to tackle this model it may be useful for you to know that I have had a set of frames cut by Model Engineers Laser for 3 1/2" gauge, 2" to the foot. I am sure that if you contacted Malcolm he could use my drawings which he has on file (somewhere!) to cut you another set 'doubled-up' in 5mm thick material. There are two drawings, left and right frame, the sole difference being that the right-hand frame has holes pierced for the reversing stand and lever. You should note however, that my frames do not follow Cliff Almonds drawing exactly. I redrew the frames completely, in so far as I could, 'to scale', however the relationship of the crankshaft bearing cut-out and cylinder location points remains as Cliff Almonds drawing, tho' I suggest that you check that - you will have to design your own valve-gear & 'works' etc., anyway. In any event, from memory, there is not enough information on Cliff Almonds drawings to actually draw or indeed cut the frames 'exactly'. As you know, the outside profile has some quite complex merging curves and my recollection in that amongst other things the radii of many of these are missing from Mr Almond's drawings. You should also note that I have all the rivet-holes cut out as per 'works drawings'. Different batches of locomotives had slightly different lay-outs and underwent further modifications, especially as regards the side-tanks.

I dare-say that Malcolm at Model Engineers Laser could possibly send you the dxf file or similar for you to look-at if you are serious, then you could see if it would serve your needs and/or adapt it to your specific requirements perhaps??

Regards,

Phil

Edited By Weary on 30/05/2019 21:57:39

Hello Ian,

First-off CuAlloys publish a very good guide to silver-soldering.

But, apart from that -> My suggestions:

Actually your work doesn't look too bad at all. You have plenty of heat, even too much, so simple refinement of technique should resolve the minor issues. The devil is in the detail!!

Your Flux: Looks serviceable tho' could be a bit thicker, maybe add a tiny amount of washing up liquid to it to assist 'wetting'. For the quantity that you have made I would get a tiny smear/drop on a pin and add that.

Your 'Work': Needs to be absolutely clean. I do a fair amount of silver-soldering of steel. I de-grease the parts thoroughly ('Gunk' or commercial cleaner from 'Screwfix'  ) and then abrade the areas to be joined (wire-wool would be suitable in this case) to physically clean them and then immerse the parts or at-least areas to be soldered in dilute Brick-cleaner (10%) for ten minutes or so. Rinse clean in water, dry and apply flux promptly. Note that experts will tell you that these stages are not necessary, but I have found that oil contamination and to a lesser extent physical dirt can be a right pain and makes the flux work hard unnecessarily.

Heating: Do not 'pre-heat' or 'warm the job'. Get in there with the flame. It also looks to me that your flame is too close to the work. In the pic where 'everything' is glowing it appears to me that the flame could be moved back a little and you would be applying heat more efficiently.

The Work itself. Your creating of dimples on surfaces to be joined is a good idea. I would have soldered that job the other way up and placed it closer to the corner of the hearth. Try and get the area to be soldered off the base of the hearth, maybe using broken fire-brick, bits of 'scrap' etc. with as little contact with other material possible If the job was inverted then all the heat would have been going into the joint and you could get your flame further around the work for most efficient heating. The work would be rested 'upside down' to how you placed it across the corner of your hearth resting on the corners of the oblong section to reduce contact to the minimum. Looks to me like your oblong part used as 'base' didn't get hot-enough, hence lack of flow.

Was there space around your 'spigot' or was it a tight fit in the hole? Some clearance is required, tho' the solder you have flows like water at the right temperature.

If I had the work inverted I would have created a small champfer around the 'hole' to 'guide' the sliver-solder.

Soldering: Speed (and confidence!) is of the essence really. An option is to put a tiny piece of silver solder on the joint where you can see it before heating. Warm your solder-rod and dip in flux. Now heat the job...speedily. With that work inverted I would be heating the work with the flame angled from slightly below the joint focussing on the oblong part and rod to be soldered, moving the flame up and over the part occasionally....... your flux will bubble and clear, then your solder will melt; maybe into a tiny ball = you are near temperature... suddenly solder will flow. remove flame, add solder stick. Add heat if necessary..... Solder will flow to the hottest part whilst flux is still active.  But note that there is no point whatsoever further heating the joint once the solder has flowed where you want it.

Job should be 'done'.

If the bubbling of the flux displaces the solder 'indicator' piece then allow the flux to dry before soldering.

Anyway, others will be along with other suggestions.

Regards,

Phil

Edited By Weary on 20/05/2019 10:50:59

Edited By Weary on 20/05/2019 10:55:19

Edited By Weary on 20/05/2019 10:56:56

I had assumed that one makes two fundamentally similar pumps.

One fitted between the locomotive frames driven from an eccentric on a driven axle, hence no need for 'anchor links'. This pump to be secured to some kind of cross-brace/frame-stay using six 6BA fasteners through the end-plate. No need for 'foot'.

The second pump to be fitted in the tender and operated by hand as required ( "Emergency Hand Pump"  ). This pump to be secured using 'foot' perhaps; or maybe to a bulkhead in the tender using the same fastening method as on loco. If secured by 'foot' then a flat plate over the end secured using fasteners through the 6BA holes will do the job.

Unfortunately the notes which might clarify a little are partially obscured.

Maybe worth asking over on MECH which is more loco' oriented and has a couple of active builders of Don Young designs?

Regards

Phil

Edited By Weary on 20/05/2019 09:07:47

The drawing looks as if it shows a foot to the pump. It is partially obscured by the positioning of the steel ruler. Casting looks as if it will do the job as required by the drawing provided overall dimensions are sufficient.

Regards,

Phil

Thanks for the prompt feedback.

Mr Harris, tried the 'Inscription' link that you gave me just now.... it tells me that someone with my details already has registered - fair enough, I have tried to join - but then when I try and log-in using the same details I am told that my account/application awaits activation. So, I'll just have to be patient and keep emailing their general 'info' email address every couple of weeks asking someone to please activate my application.

I'm not located in France, so, dropping in on a meeting, probably somewhat menacingly from their point of view( !), is not an 'easy' option.

Ho-hum. I'll just remain sanguine and patient.

Thank-you again for the suggestions. I console myself with the thought that the French modellers are too busy 'making' and 'playing' to faff about with forums.

Regards,

Phil

I have been trying to join two French model/engineering forums without success for some time.

cav-escarbille moderators simply ignore my request to join despite follow-up emails to the 'general enquiry' email address asking them to please authorise my application.

forum-train.fr won't allow me to apply as it tells me that my email address is 'fake'. Of course the email I am using is correct, and I even set up a yahoo email to try and get my email accepted so that I can complete application. Still no success. Unable to contact moderators as it seems that one has to be a member to do so.

So, stymied on both fronts. Does anyone have any suggestions how to overcome these hindrances or perhaps knows of a French model (engineer) site that might be prepared to accept me?

My objective in joining is to seek clarification over some questions that I have about French Crampton locomotives.

Regards,

Phil

Seem to be quite a few on ebay.de

There seem to be some variations, so maybe have a browse and see if they have the exact style that you are looking for?

Regards,

Phil

Re: Magnetic Tape Encoder Strip.

Does anyone have any experience of using self-adhesive magnetic tape encoder strip? I ask as it seems the least bulky option as regards magnetic encoders/readers, and some of the encoder/reader combinations seem relatively bulky, especially direct from China.

Obvious main interest is how the self adhesive strip might stand-up to the rigours of a somewhat brutal home-workshop.

Regards,

Phil

Edited By Weary on 25/04/2019 09:44:35

As stated above depends what you are machining, accuracy required, shape before and after machining, etc..

But, as a generalisation, what about some variation of:

Position one end of work conveniently for machining.

Machine as required.

Bolt a fixed block to the table hard against end or some similar feature(s). Add more blocks as required against work-piece to define position.

Remove work-piece and change end for end butting un-machined end or features against your fixed blocks.

Remove 'datum' blocks.

Machine to same settings as first end.

btw Nice steam-punk avatar!

Regards,

Phil

In the absence of manufacturing a bespoke part (although I see that plasma has PMed you, so perhaps you are 'sorted'  , & developing the suggestion of modifying or adapting sewing-needles:

Sewing needles (for wool) are commonly available up to 3.75mm diameter. See here for example. though they do not usually have a groove or channel cut in them. I dare-say that larger diameters are available from specialists.

Are these anything near to being suitable for modification perhaps?

Knitting needles 4mm diameter are size 8.

Regards,

Phil

Edited By Weary on 02/04/2019 10:02:37

Very nice design, and of course beautifully built Mr Hart.

Shame that Model Engineer editor never published the design and build series. Not that many designs for Grasshoppers around compared to other layouts, especially for 'bar-stock' construction, and those that do exist are not 'beginner's' designs like yours.

Regards,

Phil

That looks to be finished in the KPEV colours, don't know if you are aware but there is a lined-out in (off-)red version too. Pic. That pic shows the full extent of the lining as the tender is lined only on sides and not on rear surfaces.  Less good pic here - colours overexposed.

Regards,

Phil

Edited By Weary on 06/03/2019 22:24:46

Hello Ian,

The adjustable 'wedge' on the axle-box horn face is to take up wear. I recall that some British built locomotives were fitted with them too.

Off-the-top I have no source of detail drawings of DR/DB axle-boxes. Are there any particular issues needing clarification? Panki's forum may be the place to ask, though there are other forums too, of course.

Pleased to see that you are progressing the design.

Regards,

Phil

Hello David,

I suggest that the likelihood of success of BS1 centre-drill to 're-drill' your wayward holes depends on how much out of true your existing 2mm holes are. The point diameter on a BS1 centre-drill is 1.2mm, provided that point doesn't touch the walls of your already drilled 'wandering holes' at any point when drilling through then with the work firmly held and the centre-drill securely oriented and progressed into the job with great delicacy and patience your scheme will work. So, the success of your proposed centre-drill method depends on the waywardness of the existing holes. You do need to be confident that the point will not 'snag' the hole-wall at any point as should the point of the centre-drill touch the wall of the already drilled hole at any point as it progresses then it is likely going to fail.

If you prefer a less risky method then I would suggest a suitably sized slot-drill (likely 3mm?) to re-orient your wandering holes. Once again rigidity, delicacy and patience will be the watch-words.

Best of luck(!) & regards,

Phil

Edited By Weary on 27/02/2019 18:30:09

To answer your question:

"On one of his builds he [Tubal Cain] recommends Jewellers Spade Point Drill Bits for drilling 0.5mm holes.

Do you always need this sort of drill bit for tiny holes ?"

No.

I would suggest 0.5mm PCB Tungsten Carbide drill bits in the appropriate collet as the modern equivalent.

If you are unfamiliar with these drill-bits then a search on ebay will illustrate the sort of thing which is available from many suppliers in a range of sizes.  I tried to link to a suitable ad' but was unable to do-so successfully.

You do not have to drill at fantastic rotational speed, but if drilling at slow rotational speeds then you must proceed very gently with extremely frequent withdrawal and clearing of the flutes.  You may find the bits perform better without 'suds' which, depending on the material you are drilling into, can slow debris clearance - in my experience anyway.  A bit of experimentation may be in order.

Regards,

Phil

Edited By Weary on 16/02/2019 12:32:15