Member postings for mgnbuk

Edit partial are used bymodel engineers etc who don't want to spend out on a whole range of specific tpi insert.

Not just model engineers, my former employer used PP iinserts most of the time. A 60 degree PP insert threading tool lived permenantly on one tool station on all the CNC lathes and would cut the majority of metric or unified threads. Thread specific inserts were only used for "out of the ordinary" situations or where the thread pitch was outside the range covered by the PP insert. It was standard practice to use go-no go thread gauges on the first off to determine the infeed required to get the desired fit.

Nigel B.

The first Chester 12" 3-in-1 I bought would not operate alla three funsctions due to the moving beam being machined incorrectly. No spares to hand, so the machine was replaced & the second one works fine.

The quoted 1mm capability in steel is an effort to shear, though I have used mine mainly on sub-1mm aluminiun for which it is quite easy..

It has not had much use & is currently greased up under a bench pending sale - it is in the small ads on here , collect from Huddersfield for a lot less than a new one, plus it has already been deburred !

Nigel B.

with 1500W from 30rpm to 2500rpm (with two belts providing high and low speed ranges)

No, it says it is fitted with a 1.5 KW motor and that the speed range is 30-2500 over 2 ranges. It doesn't say that 1.5 KW is available at the spindle throughout the available speed range - that would be impossible with a variable speed drive. If the motor is running at less than it's 50Hz speed, it will be less powerful than the 50Hz rating.

I wonder how noisy a GH600 is compared with a WM280?

The manual on Warco's website says 78 dB (A) at 1 metre. There are a couple of YT videos of these machines being run and, while it can be difficult to tell from a video, they don't sound too noisy. My belt drive Myford isn't silent !

Their different speed/rpm/torque characteristics suggest to me that a GH600 will be happier with HSS whilst the 280 gets more out of carbide. If that matters!

Why ?

From Warco's website, assuming their numbers are correct!

I think the Warco website weight is wrong - the manual for the machine downloaded from them says 225 kg net / 255 kg gross. A YT video review of what looks like the same machine with DRO (badged Bernado) says on the crate before unpacking 230 kg net / 270 kg gross. That video is here & also shows fairly heavy cuts being taken with insert tooling.

How did you lift and move it around? Engine crane OK?

I have an engine hoist that I hope to use to mount the machine on the stand.

Is it delivered on the stand or separates?

The machine appears to come crated as Jason B's, with the stand separate & requiring some assembly.

Where would the straps go on the lathe and should I even bother getting it with the stand, or are they too flimsy to bother with?

I'll let you know when I figure it out WRT to getting a safe lift. The stand is included with the GH600

I think the GH600 is probably the way to go. I even have loads of old motor oil I can use

Do you have an old motor to use it in ? ISO 46 hydraulic oil should be fine in the headstock without absorbing too much of the available power. ISO 32 & 46 hydraulic oils are used in many industrial lathe headstocks.

Nigel B.

Having recently gone through a similar exercise, I am going for the GH600 over the 280V (the 290V is bigger than I want / need, more spendy & currently out of stock).

The spindle motor power discrepancy that Dave mentions isn't as clear-cut as he suggests, due to the GH600 being a fully geared headstock the 750W (minus transmission losses) is available in all speeds. On the variable speed machines the power falls off as the motor speed drops, so often the motor is "over specified" at the top end to have more useable power at lower speeds.

While both GH600 & 280V are currently the same price, the GH600 includes the stand where the stand for the 280V is £330 extra.

Not sure why Dave thinks the 280V is larger than the GH600 ? There doesn't seem to be much to choose between them WRT footprint, with the 280V being only slightly larger & both are not much bigger than my Super 7 on the Myford stand - important for me as the lathe has to fit it to the same space the Myford is vacating. I am also not sure that the weight quoted by Warco is correct, as other sellers of what appears to be the same machine (Bernado Profi 600G / Paulimot PM3700) quote 200 -220Kg - it will be interesting to see what turns up. The 280V does have a slightly wider bed casting, 100mm more capacity between centres + a separate feed shaft to the apron (the GH600 has a keyway in the leadscrew for power feeds)..

I prefer the spindle start arrangement on the GH600 (lever off the side of the apron - down for forwards, up for reverse) to having to reach over the headstock to the spindle controls, mainly because I am used to this arrangement on the industrial Harrisons I have used. This should make screwcutting by keeping the half nut engaged & reversing the spindle easier - need to check the permissible "starts per hour" on the motor, though.

Untimately this seems to be a situation where either would do the job, both have features that are desirable (but neither have all the features ! ) & it is down to individual preference to rate the pros & cons of each design. Both feature a spindle mounting arrangment that I don't particularly favour (I would prefer a short taper + key-hole plate design, but only Chester may have that on one model that has that & it other, less desireable, features that led me to rule it out) but, for me, the balance of features on the GH600 won out.

Nigel B.

Spending money on 'expensive' fully synthetic oil is actually cheaper in the long run.

Rather depends if your engine can tolerate it.

I decided to "upgrade" to full syntthetic 20W50 in a 2 valve BMW motorcycle engine following an overhaul. I used Millers oil, as they are local. Oil consumption was horrendous & at one point mid-tour I had to clean the plugs of excessive burnt oil deposits. On my return I contacted Miller's technical depart, described what had happened & they were not suprised - apparently a common issue on older engine designs when run on full synthetic oil & they recommended changing back to their mineral 20W50. With that oil installed, oil consumption returned to normal levels - normal in this case being about 2000 miles per pint.

WRT to your time taken to get oil flow in a rebuilt engine - did you repeat the excercise later on after all the pump / filter / galleries had been filled from empty to get a better idea of how long it took to see flow from a "normal, after standing" condition ? I would not expect subsequent starts to take any where near as long to see flow, as the system would not have drained down to an "as rebuilt" dry condition with standing ? It took several seconds for the oil light to extinguish on first start after a recent oil & filter change on my motorhome, but the light goes out almost instantaneously on subesquent starts, regardless of how long the engine has been stood.

The first car my brother bought after emigrating to NZ was the Holden badged version of a Vauxhall Astra. This was a turbo diesel & had been fitted by a previous owner with an aftermarket "turbo guard" unit. This was basically an off-delay timer which kept the engine running for a short while after the ingition was turned off to give the turbo some time to cool down before the engine stopped - automating what would be considered best practice for the forgetful.

Nigel B.

Forgot to mention that Millers offer an oil analysis service at a reasonabale rate for those who might wish to try this. I could see the value to someone looking to buy an expensive vehicle to check that the engine was not harbouring expensive secrets, but the cost is similar to buying fresh oil for most vehicles so probably not a saving on doing regular oil changes.

Edited By mgnbuk on 19/07/2023 14:00:00

Phil & Brian,

Please accept my apologies for not replying to you posts sooner.

Grizzly manuals are a step up from most others but, unfortunately, I have not been able to identify if they ever sold a version of this machine. Their current line-up doesn't have one & searching for "discontinued Grizzly lathes" didn't come up with anything either. Their model numbering system seems a bit random, with model numbers not seeming to be logical in any way I can see. Their total number of manuals online is over 4000 - searching for those prefixed "G" as most lathes appear to be gets this down to just over 1000. But the first "G" mode listed (G0440) l is a dust extractor & one 4 numbers higher is a 10" table saw !

Brian - thank you for your kind offer. I live in Huddersfield so, unfortunately, you are still quite a way south.

Graham - well spotted ! DiogenesII kindly sent me a copy of that manual (and supplied more information as well - much appreciated, Paul )

I have decided to take the plunge & will update in due course.

Nigel B.

Seem to remember hearing quite a few years ago about American engines that were sealed for life, no way to change oil or filter, and I believe guaranteed for hundred thousand miles.

Northstar engines ?

Nigel B.

Why would you want one of these for a Super 7 ?

They are equipped as standard with a spindle lock pin that engages with the spindle pulley set.

Nigel B.

There has been a Catalina / PBY over the village recently.

Plane Sailing Catalina

I have some pictures of that in a couple of locations at airshows.

Nigel B.

The dealers have infered that the warrentee is void since I did NOT have it serviced every 12months, even though the service milage is 5000 miles !

I think you will find that the 5000 miles / 12 months servicing is a case of "either / or" - don't hit the mileage and the service is annual, exceed the mileage within a year and the service is on mileage.

21 plate RE 350 will be one of the new "J" series bikes, so would have come with a 3 year warranty if serviced in accordance with the schedule ? My 19 plate Interceptor 650 had similar provision, though the mileage / interval for a "full" service was 6000 or annual, with a 3000 mile intermediate "inspection". At £200 for the oil change + valve clearance check annual service & £50 fo the "inspection" check it didn't break the bank to keep the warranty up. My 16 plate Classic 500 is on a 2000 mile oil change service interval - the 2 year warranty was long gone when I bought it used & I do that myself.

Nigel B.

A fiat diesel eh...

Solid, reliable engines in my experience of their 2.3 litre LCV versions - far better than the Ford equivalents.

Former work uses diesel generators to run the factory - there is a 3 phase supply into the workshop, but it is of inadequate capacity to run the workshop & the quoted cost of upgrading the supply very high - a down-side to operating in a rural location. DIY generation was a far cheaper option, though it went up a lot last year with the requirement to use white rather than red diesel.

The 6 litre 6 cylinder Iveco turbo diesel engine in the original 200 KVA Aggreko generator didn't get its oil changed - one of the employees topped it up with used diesel engine oil he saved from regular oil changes to his Mondeo, always making sure that the level was maintained.

One day it just stopped - siezed solid. When the engine was removed & stripped (conveniently there was an independant commercial vehicle workshop across the road), it was found that the front main bearing had siezed. When sent for a regrind, the crankshaft was found to be twisted such that it could not be salvaged, no replacement cranks were available at the time (supplier issue) & a s/h engine had to be sourced & fitted - a low hours unit of the same type & rating from a combine harvester of all things. When the sump was dropped it contained a largely soild lump of congealed oil that had grooves cut into it by the crank & conrods - nothing drained out when the sump plug was removed..

Following that episode, the company owner became a lot more interested in regular oil & filter changes !

Nigel B.

Wankel has a very poor combustion chamber shape, so more difficult to get clean burn. Sealing will always be an issue,

Yet Mazda have recently announced a new electric drive hybrid model with a single rotor Wankel engine driving a generator, so can't be that difficult ? Maybe easier with a generator application, as more likely to be constant speed operation ?

Many years ago Norton also sorted tip sealing life on their Wankel engined motorcycles - IIRC they held a large number of patents in this regard & other versions of their engine were used in surveillance drones.

Nigel B.

Use a steel brush cutter blade rather than cords on your strimmer / weed eater ?

Former work had two strimmers for grounds maintenance - a small Homelite two stroke unit with a twin cord head & a larger Stihl 2 stroke unit with a steel 3 edge blade like the one shown in the link. I don't recall this having any trouble with brambles, saplings etc that the Homelite would not touch.

Nigel B.

Wavey thing = swashplate

Are swashplates not flat - this is more of a face cam ?

Nigel B.

what pushes the pistons back down the bore to keep them in contact with the wavy thing?

There is a cam groove in the spigot on the "wavy thing" that is engaged by an overhung bearing mounted on an extended gudgeon pin that the face cam rollers mount on. The piston is guided on both strokes.

Suggestion is that it is premix lubricated - how will that tie up with modern emissions requirements ?

Seems like another developmental dead end to me.

Nigel B.

Apologies for the late reply & thanks to all who responded.

My Google search didn't turn up the posts that Dave's site search did - didn't think to use the site facilty !

The positive opinions of users are encouraging. In an ideal world I would go and have a play with one, but Warco are currently 230 (ish) miles South and are in the process of moving even further away from me. Along with the other (dwindling) list of suppliers they don't appear to attend shows any more, so that option is out as well. It would be helpful if they made the machine manuals available to download (Chester do) and if the website descriptions were more thorough and include more pictures - I can't think that an industrial supplier would fail to mention the spindle nose details, for example.

The ELS / CNC route isn't one I am too keen on. I can see the advantages but, apart from the "another project" aspect mentioned initially , I spent 46 years working with CNC machinery for a living & rather enjoy the challenge of working on manual machines in my own time. I have a Denford Triac in the "projects" already & feel I would rather put time into that than building an ELS lathe from scratch. And the GH600 probably wouldn't be the best starting point for such a project - no point paying for a feed gearbox & power feed apron if they were not going to be used ?

Brian's comment about "lacking the silky smooth feel of his S7" is one of the remaining nagging doubts, though. While they have their detractors and limitations, I also find that my well set up S7 is a pleasure to use - a hobby isn't just about the end result, but the experience of getting there ?.

Nigel B.

There is an affordable 150 long 15mm gun drill on Ebay at the moment -

Use this to drill from each end to get your required depth ?

You would need to bore a short close fitting 15mm recess into the end of the bar to centre the gun drill initially as they are not self centering (proper gun drilling machines use a hardened bush held against the end of the part to centre the drill) , but they drill very straight. Best used with through coolant (messy ! ) but air would probably work to blow the chips out - the method my last employment used gun drilling graphite.

Nigel B.

Reckon on £65 - 70 per hour + Vat for the services of a machine tool fitter. For a small machine a couple of days should do it, so 16 hours @ £65/hr = £1040 + Vat.

Nigel B.

Heat the pulley to expand it while it is under tension from the puller.

Concur with Ian P on the face driver marks - that was how Brook Crompton Parkinson made their shafts.

Nigel B.

I am mulling over changing my Super 7B for a Warco GH600 & would be interested in the current opinions of users of these machines. There was a quite extensive thread on here in 2019 ( https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=142769 ) where the opinions were predominantly positive, but there is little else around - a couple of YouTube posters is about it.

These machines seem to be available from several European sellers (Bernado Profi 600G, Pauilmot PM3700 as examples ) and the manufacturer would possibly be CJ Machinery. ( http://cjmachine.net/ProductsShow.asp?Probid=1707 ). Weiss do make gear head machines, but they appear to be different to the CJ machine (different spindle speeds & gearchange arrangements). YouTube videos about the Bernado & Paulimot machines noted above also appear to be largely positive. There do not appear to be any other UK sellers of Chinese gearhead machines of this size (250 - 280 swing) other than Warco.

Reasons for considering a swap are mainly to get power cross feed on a native Metric machine with a screwcutting gearbox. I can work in either Metric or Imperial, but prefer Metric & the majority of threads I wish to cut are Metric ( a bit of a pain on the S7B, though I do have the Metric kit for it). I would like power cross feed to reduce discomfort in my right hand following surgery on it last year - it sort-of works, but gets uncomfortable during longer periods of use. A bonus here is power long feed becomes independant of the leadscrew. The spindle drive & control arrangements are very similar to the various Harriosn lathes I have used since starting work (L5, 140, M300 & VS330), so would take no re-learning.

Disadvantages of the GH600 appear to be the bolt-on chucks - a bit of a pain to change chucks & only a shallow parallel spigot for location ? - and an incomplete range of Imperial threads available as supplied. The Imperial threads bit probably isn't an issue, but Sod's Law usually dictates that first need to cut an Imperial thread would be one that can't be set.

I don't want to go down the ex-industrial route - it would be a choice of staying as I am with the Myford or changing for a new machine. I am looking for a tool to use with minimal fettling, not another project with high spares & accessory prices. I have owned the Myford for around 25 years & it is in good order, with minimal wear & comprehensively equipped. In an ideal world would keep it in addition to the GH600 (if I go that route) but, unfortunately, don't have the space to do so. And I don't want to go for a machine with a much larger footprint - the GH600 isn't much bigger overall than the S7B, so would slot in to the space the Myford currently occupies.

I did consider getting a similar capacity varaiable speed model with power crossfeed (Warco, Chester or Amadeal), but really don't want a closed source, no name, no information available "brushless" drive & the inverter drive models are about the same cost (when a stand is added) as the GH600 - plus they don't have a screwcutting gearbox. Easier to add an Rocketronics ELS solution maybe - a valid alternative solution to a screwcutting gearbox - but that is getting into the "another project" scenario.

Sorry for the ramble, any feedback that would help sway my decision one way or the other will be welcome.

Nigel B.