Member postings for larry Phelan

Dont know about milling cutters,have not needed to replace any yet,but something else came to mind.

Recently,I went looking for a thread gauge to grind tool bits for Acme threads,no big deal you might think. Wrong ! I was unable to find a supplier anywhere in this part of the world,so I went shopping on the Internet. These gauges seem to be quite common in America and I found one place,I think they are called "Shars",who told me that "Yes sir,you have come to the right place,we can supply your gauge for only $8.99 if you buy online" I thought" Fine,that will do grand,but lets just check about postage,or "shipping" as they like to call it,so I did.

Surprise,surprise, "Yes sir,your gauge is only $8.99 and the shipping cost is $35 extra". I said "No sir,I only want to buy a gauge,not shares in the company" Perhaps they were sending it by Pony Express and the high cost was to feed the horse.

A friend found another supplier on Ebay ,in China,who sells the same thing for $6.50,with little or no shipping costs,although it does take a bit longer to get here,but so what?,how often do you use something like this,so you will have it for years.

So the lesson is,look before you leap,or check before you order,else you might get a surprise.

Does anyone know where I could get a "Keats" angle plate of a size to use on my 6" lathe?

My floor standing drill is one I bought in 1983,when I knew little or nothing about such things,other than that they were better than a hand drill.It is a cheap Taiwan model,spec unknown,but something which has served me well over the years [more than I can say for my rotary table ] It never gave any bother,smooth running and quiet,although it is single phase,of course. Many years ago I managed to drill out 1/2" silver steel to make 3/8" drill bushes,by mounting the blanks in the chuck and the drill bits held in a cheap table vice ! Sounds crazy? maybe,but it worked. We needed 24 bushes to make up a drilling jig.

It sounds like your pulley cone may be bored off center. You should not have that much vibration to contend with.

The other cause might be too much mass in one part of the cone. Not sure how you deal with that.

By the way,I have never replaced my belts on that machine. The bushes worked out fine also.

Hi Allan,

You want to cut twinstart threads just because they are there? I thought I was the only one like that around !.

I came across two ways to do this [have,nt tried either yet ]

1 This is from a book by Laurence Sparey,written in the 1930,s,but still a great read,I use it all the time.

The way he gives is to cut the first thread in the usual way and when you come to cut the second thread,use your TDI to move the topslide back by the amount required to give the correct spacing. Then cut the second thread.

2 This is something I saw on Utube,I think. This guy was cutting a thread on a bar mounted between centers,the bar being driven by a lathe dog engaging with a pin on a faceplate. Having cut one thread,he just rotated the bar by 90* and cut the second thread.

Never saw it done this way before. One of these days,I will try both ways

In passing,I must say that I have never known Sparey to be very far wrong. I have his book nearly worn out from use.His method does seem quite simple,and I prefer to have my workpieces mounted in the chuck.

Giive it a bash and let us know what happens.

I also would like a bigger and better lathe,so, why dont I buy one? Simple,I dont think I,d know how to use it !

I have a small 6" Chinese job [ex Chester ] which does all I know how to do,no point in buying something better and maybe wreck it. 7.5 HP is a fair load for a home workshop,not sure your nabours would love you when you switch that on !

Very interested in this Badgers Arse spec,this might go some way towards explaining my table problems.!

I do have a badger come to visit from time to time,I,ve never seen him,but he leaves his mark. N o need to dig holes when they are around,nothing stops them. I dont fancy trying to measure his arse since I suspect he might object to it,and when they get annoyed,it,s time to hit the trail,fast.

Just reading the reply from Bill.I think he hit the nail right on the head.I used to think CNC was supposed to do away with errors,seems like I was wrong. Going through the chart in my "Instruction Manual ", I came across several errors regarding hole spacing and all these at the lower end of the scale. I hate to think what the upper level is like,should make gear cutting very interesting. The "Manual" itself must have been written by a 3rd rate bottle washer from the local takeaway,it,s almost impossible to understand.

In one case,in order to space 13 holes,they call for 6 full turns plus 30 holes on a 39 circle. This of course does not work out. What does work is 36 [yes 36 ]holes on the 39 hole circle.But it,s not just that simple,because you cannot position the sector arms to achieve this [same think happens in a few other cases ] I got around this by making a one-off sector arm and using both sides of it. Might sound a bit iffy but it works and I suppose it blends in well with the rest of the table; At this stage,nothing would surprise me. Just picture finding this out when you are trying to cut 60 teeth!.

On another topic,I mentioned about a mod I had made to my bandsaw. I have taken two pictures of it in case it might be of interest to anyone else [this does work ]

Hi Everyone , my ,computer decided to act up today [what else can go wrong? ]

Some other member posted an item regarding a dividing head which he had bought,which was just about as good as my rotary table. Seems like there,s a lot of stuff like that out there,it gives a whole new meaning to the term "Inspection" How this stuff ever gets passed is beond me.

I had intended to post some pictures of some mods I made to my cheap bandsaw,but since I seem to have lost everything,thanks to "updates" being installed,without even asking for them,I will have to reload them and then try putting them in my album

The main change I made was mounting the saw on a proper stand,with wheels and fitting a coolant pump [a pump from an old washing machine ]. I t works perfectly,has done for the last 10 years,and does wonders for blade life.

If I can get this thing up and running again,I will try posting the pictures.

Talking about rotary tables [ I know, I know,will he ever stop about them ] ,was just looking at some of them on Ebay,from India.Prices seem very good,does anyone know about the quality? I suppose they could not be much worse than the one I have. I have no plans to buy right now,just wondering.

By the way,I think I did manage to send a picture of my "Test Cert ". My computer skills leave a lot to be desired,since in my day even calculators were not even heard of,never mind computers.Anyone remember those days when you worked everything out the long way ? Anyone out there who still remembers using log tables?

Happy days ! Now you click a button and hope it gives you the right answer.

As an after thought,when I was checking the "Instruction book "which came with my table,I found several errors relating to the spacing of holes ect,so dont rely too much on these charts,do a dry run first. Bit late to find out if you are spacing 50 or more holes !

Hi everyone,

Back to the old rotary table [OK,I can hear you all saying "not that again" ] The good news is that when I had finished a job with it last weekend [using the 4 jaw chuck setup ],I set it up with a best bar in the centre hole and clocked it. The hand got dizzy going around the dial ! The truth is that it was/is out by 25 divs,each one 0.01mm,a total of 0.25 mm. A bit much,you might say. This is much as I seem to remember it was the first time I checked it;

Hence my referring to the 6" rule ! A micrometer would have been an overkill,perhaps a 4"g clamp might have more suitable. Anyway,I now have a good idea of how to correct the problem,so all may not be lost.My thanks to everyone who gave a hand. Someone asked about the cert which came with it,so I will try and enclose a picture of it.While all the tests are marked off as OK, you will note that no one signed it ! I wonder why?

Sorry,was unable to get the picture out from my picture files. [I can hear you guys saying "can this guy do anything? ].

I always regard angle grinders and their discs as I do mothers-in-laws,with great respect,since both are quite likely to explode when least expected,and for no obvious reason.

I do use grinders,but I am always wary of those thin cut off discs,one is tempted to use them to grind off that little of junk,rather than change the disc [we,ve all done it ]

You were lucky,dont push it ! no body looks well with a disc sticking out of their head,well,very few anyway.

Afterthought I meant screwcutting !!

Just as an afterthought,although my lathe does have a threading dial,I never use it. I simply leave the leadscrew engaged all the time while screwing.

On another point,looking into the control box on my lathe,everything is in Chinese,and I mean everything ! I hope I never have to go looking for a spare part. Should I start at my local takeaway?. Good enough machine though for the money.

Ah So,velly nice of man to go take picture of dial and send to you.

Might be even better to do the job right in the first place by stamping them on.

Hi Jim,

Thank you very much for your reply to my sad story table. The problem seems to be with the centre hole since I set up my 5" 3 jaw chuck this morning without ref to the centre hole and got good results. I..will now look at correcting this [why do we have to do such things with a new unit? ]

I would like to have the centre hole correct since it is useful for machining other work such as curved slots ect..Trying to do that as the table is,would result in some strange looking slots.

Many thanks to all you guys out there,you have given me much food for thought along with good advice. It,s nice to know that I am not alone in my efforts.

Sorry if I seem to have have got off on the wrong foot,but when I said it was a mile off,I was not joking. I forget exactly how much it was off,but you could see clearly the difference on the sides of the hexagon,quite a lot of thous or mm. However,all might not be lost,following up on advice from Mike,I set up my 4 jaw chuck and had good results. This morning,I setup my 5" 3 jaw and set it to run true with the DTI. without ref to the centre hole. Again,the results were good,so it would seem that the centre hole is the culprit. Another man has explained how to set up to correct this error,which is something I will look at soon.

Again,my apologises ,God knows I can,t afford to annoy anyone,I know so little about the whole thing,but even I could see that I was not on a winner at that stage. How do these things ever get past "Inspection" ? is there any?

Larry.

Hi everyone,

Just reading the above posts,yes it seems we do live i a throw away world. When I started out [many moons ago ] you did not throw anything out if it could be repaired,you could not afford to,simple as that. Now the idea seems to be Throw it out,buy a new one.

Some time ago my nabour,a carpenter,asked me if I might be able to repair his saw bench,an old De Walt model [Well he thought it was old at 20 years,I have my home made saw bench for the last 50 years,home made because at the time,I could not afford to buy one ] . Anyway what had happened was that the thread on the shaft to which the blade was fitted had become damaged,he said he loaned it to someone and got it back like that,maybe,maybe not,who knows.He tried to get a replacement part but was told,yes,you guessed it "we no longer have parts for that model,it,s too old " "Can you repair it for me?" "No,it would not be worth while,would be cheaper to buy a new one"

So,it ended up in my shop.I had a look at it and all I could see wrong was that the thread was roughed up,I think the nut may have been forced on on the wrong thread [some people are really thick,and never seem to know when they are doing damage ] By mounting the unit in my lathe,I was able to clean up the damaged part of the shaft and cut a new thread. I was even lucky enough to find a Whitworth nut to suit,in my junk box [never throw out anything ] Result for a little time and effort, the machine is now back up and running.

Sad to say,no body these days wants to dirty their hands or try anything,except play with the buttons on their "Smart Phones " they can,t even fix a puncture in their bike ! I,ve had those brought to me as well.

Not only can they not do anything,they dont want to know how to do anything. It,s all very well having a very Hi Tech machine,but what happens when you need to have it repaired? Do you think you will be able to get parts for it? dont bet on it. My lathe is plain and simple [much like myself ] belt driven,simple motor. Nothing much to go wrong,if I break a belt,so what?,just get a new one,plenty of belts around still. Even if the motor packs up,no big deal,it,s just a common or garden motor. The motor on my homemade bench came from an old water pump,it,s still working away. I look at all these new fancy machines and think,yes very nice,but I think I,ll stick with what I have.

Hi Neil,

How big was the error? well,put it this way,there was no need to use a DTI !.A 6" rule would have been good enough,you could see it a mile away !.

The 5" chuck was screwed on to an adaptor and was sitting snug on the table.I have used the same chuck on my lathe,with no problem,no run out.. I might not have minded a slight run out,but this was ridiculous. The fact that the chuck and it,s mounting was located from the centre hole seems to point to the hole being off. I am not going to start cutting metal right away,before I check everything else. John,s idea did make a big difference,just takes a bit longer to set up each time,and the 8" chuck is huge!. Still,I am learning all the time and even at this stage, I can do a bit more with it now than I could before.I managed to machine a number of hex caps for a friend over the weekend. No idea what they are for,I just wanted to see if I could manage to machine them.

Seems such a pity to have a piece of gear like this and not to be able to make full use of it due to being badly made in the first place. I will continue to "Watch this space "

Hi Everyone,

Seems like I opened a right can of worms regarding my rotary table !

First off,my thanks to everyone who replied,at least I have hope now of correcting the problem. I took John,s advice and set up my 4 jaw chuck to do a test run [takes a while but was worth it ] The result was a perfect hex,so that would seem to indicate that the centre hole is off. [So much for spec ] M y 4 jaw is 8" dia with a threaded backplate which screws onto my lathe spindle.I used an adaptor which I had made long ago to use with a 5" chuck,in order to mount the 8" chuck.The adaptor is like a top hat,the flange being used to clamp it to the table using 3 clamps in the tee slots.I was of course locating from the centre hole,that,s when the penny dropped that all was not well.

I have three questions.

1 How do I go about bolting the chuck t directly to the table ?

2 How do I go about setting up the table to machine out the centre hole [which I would really like to do,would make things a lot easier later on ] How do I line it up with the spindle of the milling machine?

3 I suspect that the centre bush may be hardened,so may need to be pressed out. Any ideas how to do this without damaging anything else?

One extra question do I need to wind the table anti clockwise since the cutter will be going clockwise?

Sorry if these questions sound stupid,but I have learned over the years that it is much easier to deal with stupid questions than with stupid mistakes. [which we have all made,dont be shy! ]

Regarding the cert which came with my table a "precision" product,it was about as precise as a bicycle wheel with a hop in it.

Again,my thanks to all.I have come up with a few useful ideas over the years,which I would be happy to pass on if anyone is interested.

Hi Michael,

The table is a Homge 6 inch with three slots and mt centre hole..It was bought from Chester,like a lot more of my equipment. No problems with any of the other gear.They tell me they no longer sell this item and could offer no help with the problem,full stop ! Just shows that you need to check everything as soon as you get it home. Be warned !

Thanks John,

I did try setting up a three jaw chuck,using the slots,with no better luck.Next time I will try the four jaw. I am just amazed that something like this could make it,s way through inspection [it came with it,s own cert,for what it,s worth ] Makes me wonder about the rest of the stuff out there !

I like your idea regarding the mill,that might be worth a try,since I really could make use of the table now,and at this stage,anything is worth a try.

Many thanks for taking the time to reply,

Larry Phelan.