Alternative to CZ120

Has anyone used this as an alternative to CZ120 brass sheet? My usual supplier is out of stock of the thickness I want.

They offer 5 different gauges with only the 1mm being German.

From the website - German manufacture (MS58 brass) or made in China (H62 brass).

It seems that MS58 is the same as CU3 which looks promising.

H62 doesn't seem to have a British equivalent.

Also, they are significantly cheaper than CZ120.

Any thoughts welcome,

Steve

Edited By Steve Crow on 01/04/2023 18:33:38

Cousins is a respected supplier to the horological trade, they should be able to advise.

I've been using Cousins for many years. I'm sure, if I got in touch, they would tell me it was suitable.

What I was looking for was if anyone had used the stuff and comparisons to CZ120.

The spec says it has similar composition to CZ120 and is a free cutting leaded brass. I would have no qualms about using it for clock plates or wheels.

regards Martin

This may be of interest:**LINK**

https://i.trade-cloud.com.cn/upload/391/h62-brass-strip-roll_495326.pdf

MichaelG.

.

Note the low lead content, and its suitability for deep-drawing

… perhaps not an ideal choice for wheel-cutting 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 02/04/2023 10:47:30

From the alloy contents, H62 is very similar to CZ108.

I've often wondered why clock-making books always recommend CZ120 rather than, say, CZ121. They're both free-machining brasses, but CZ121 is more so. I see CZ120 is described as 'Engraving Brass' and it has less Lead in it. I think this would make it a shade harder than CZ121, allowing it to take and hold sharper engraving cuts, useful because engraving is common on clocks! CZ120 is also described as 'decorative'

If no engraving is needed, I guess CZ121 would be a good substitute, though slightly softer, which might wear faster.

H62 is an ordinary brass, no lead in it, not as free-machining as CZ120, but stronger and more ductile. It can be pressed, but I don't think that helps clockmakers. One website says its good for: Coppersmithing work for chains, eyelets fasteners, hinges, kicking plates, locks, fingerplates and wire brushes; various cold presswork products including instrument covers and containers; blanked articles such as instrument plates and wheels; cold headed items including pins, rivets and screws, springs, radiator tanks and reflectors. Cheaper and OK for clocks but not as pretty as CZ120, or as easy to work, or suitable for engraving.

As a beginner I'd go for the recommended metal rather than risk an unexplained substitute. Easier to learn with the 'right' material rather than have to cope with a difficult one as well.

Dave

I to admit to only looking up the MS58. Depends a bit what you want it for. If it’s clock plates then you can always bush the pivot holes and run the barrel in ball races if you want better bearing surfaces. The only snag I could see is they state that the plates may need some finishing which suggests that the surface is not exactly mirror like.

regards Martin

Thanks all. I might go for the German MS58 sheet as I need 1mm gauge for wheels.

I'm going to bear the other stuff in mind for other non-horological projects (maybe a sundial) as the price seems quite good.

Also, this carbon steel could be useful. Ok, it's not going to be as flat as gauge plate but look at the price! Could be good for making tools or springs. The carbon content looks ok.

Cheers, Steve

Nice to see a supplier being honest about the finish by showing a rather rusty sheet photo instead of the usual 'perfect' sample. Thanks for the pointer just in time as I nearly put in an order to them last night.

In passing I looked at the price of pivot files we don't seem to have a suitable smiley for "aaaaaaagh!"

I just looked at the pivot files. Wow. I recently bought some fine escapement files for crossing out and that was painful but these are on another level!

I've been buying Swiss files for 10 years from Cousins and the prices have increased alarmingly. Saying that, Cousins is still the cheapest for Vallorbe etc.

If you ordered the "refreshingly rusty" steel, please let me know your views on it.

Cheers, Steve