Attaching Hornblocks - 5" Charlatan

Can anyone advise on fitting the horns? The plans look as though they are riveted, but with a smooth back?? Do you countersink the back slightly and flatten the rivet into the back?

I found an image on Google which suggests the backs had been sanded/ground flush. Having never done any sort of riveting and this being the first build I'm lost already!

Thanks

I am not familiar with the engine you are working on - but yes - most I have seen use snap head rivets. The round head on the insides of the frames and horns and the other end is flattened into countersunk holes on the outside. The rough hammered surface is then filed flush with the frames. When completed, the rivet is virtually invisible on the outside surface of the frame.

Phil H

That's great thanks

Is it not the other way round though? Round head on the outside and then filed flush on the inside?

David,

I am not familiar with your engine. For example, tender horns and maybe narrow gauge engines are often on the outside of the frames so the rivets are from the outside and hammered on the inside of the frames. Most locomotives have their main horns on the inside of the frames and the rivets hammered flush on the outside of the frames.

I did a quick search for Charlatan but couldn't find any reference to it. What kind of engine is it. I could help further if I knew.

Phil H

David,

Ive just found it in the Blackgates catalogue but it is difficult to see the frame arrangement from the picture i.e., it is difficult to see which side the horns are located.

Phil H

Thanks Phil. I was under the impression they were on the outside but I will double check the plans tomorrow when I'm in the workshop. There's a couple of images on Google but it's hard to see the arrangement so I'll double check the plans.

There are a couple of images in the Station Road Steam archive ... It looks as if they are on the outside, so the head of the rivet is on the outside.

Dave

Charlatan is a model of an 08 shunter

**LINK**

shows horns outside

Thanks guys. Just had a quick peak at the plans before work and the plans show them on the outside.

Need to practice my riveting now

Thinking about the way horns would be fitted on a regular loco or tender Isn't the rule of thumb the countersink is closest to the wheel, Also help with side clearance.

I would thing the countersink always has to be the other side from the hornblock Brian - regardless of where the wheel is.

Regards,

IanT

Thanks Duncan - it is now clear from the photographs - they are a bit like a tender i.e., snap heads on the outside, countersink on the inside. The chassis looks quite nice if a close to scale engine is built - and - hey no boiler to argue about.

Phil H

Had a go at riveting the horns on. Fairly straight forward but it's going to take a while.

Thanks for the advice chaps

I have a question about the horn angle / blocks, I drilled the holes in the horns and when I lined the holes up with the frame , the horns are not flush with the frames .

dose any body know why, are they to be machined back when fitting axle boxes ?

regards

Rick

It's normal to machine the hornblock working faces after fitting to the frames.

Could I suggest that starting a new thread would be preferable to re-opening one that is several years old, likely to get more attention, esp. if your loco is not  Charlatan.

Edited By Clive Brown 1 on 22/06/2023 08:38:15