A sign of the times
Neil Wyatt | 24/05/2016 16:15:57 |
![]() 19226 forum posts 749 photos 86 articles | For anyone not familiar with the 'twisty' concept , its a single or double acting engine that has an extended piston with ports in its sides, the drive to the flywheel is some sort of universal joint so as it lifts and lowers the piston it also covers and uncovers the ports. With care its possible to make an engine with only two moving parts (piston and flywheel/shaft). The downside is the lack of adjustment. Twisty was an example described in ME as a new idea, but in fact a similar model had been descrivbed many years before, and clearly this engine is even older. Nihil sub sole novum Neil |
JasonB | 24/05/2016 16:32:40 |
![]() 25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles | Just had a look at that Twisty in ME and you could well be right, just ned to work out why it has such a thick piston rod or is that a tube full of steam |
John Fielding | 24/05/2016 17:13:04 |
235 forum posts 15 photos | I think the engine is definitely a reciprocating type. I assume the crank pin engages with the lump attached to the piston rod and it slides in the upper tail rod support. There is probably an oil well in the lozenge shaped bit which is bolted to the piston rod, you can see the cross bolt in the diagram. That would be enough to keep the crank pin and piston rod lubricated. The governor is driven by the belt pulleys (belt not shown in diagram) and there must be a pair of bevel gears inside the casting. The governor operates the steam regulator. The mystery is - where is the valve gear? Possibly it is contained within the piston casting and as with most stationary engines it only rotates in one direction, so a simple piston or slide valve would do the necessary. I have seen similar steam engines in old books but never one like this one. There appears to be a sort of name or logo cast into the main support but it is too indistinct to decipher. |
Andrew Johnston | 24/05/2016 22:54:13 |
![]() 7061 forum posts 719 photos | Posted by Muzzer on 24/05/2016 11:53:49:
Andrew - you must have pondered the design for many hours over the years! I'm assuming that the connection between the pin and the disk on the piston rod must be either spherical or at least capable of accommodating 2 axes of rotation. Was it his own design? Do you know if it was ever built? Perhaps somebody ought to have a go at a making a detail design and then building it.... Indeed I have pondered it over the years. I can sort of see how the crank may be articulated, although it seems rather complicated. Neil may well be right about it being a twisty. It seems to show steam entering on one side with the exhaust in line on the other. I'm afraid I have no clue about the origins of the engine, or whether it ever existed in full size. Here are some closer shots of the elevations: Andrew Edited By Andrew Johnston on 24/05/2016 22:54:50 |
Andrew Johnston | 24/05/2016 23:32:53 |
![]() 7061 forum posts 719 photos | Some background - my grandfather was born in 1888 and came south from Edinburgh in 1904 looking for work. So he would have been about 20 when the drawing was done. That seems a little late for an apprentice piece? My mum thought it might have been a demonstration drawing (like an artists portfolio) when looking for work. If that is the case it may well be that the engine never existed, and wouldn't work as drawn. However, that seems odd. Remember that in the good old, bad old, days the draughtmen often did a lot of the detail design and calculations, so not good if the engine design was wrong? I know that my grandfather was working at the Royal Aircraft Factory at Farnborough in 1912, as there is an entry in Geoffrey de Havillands flying logbook in that year stating "took Mr Johnston for a ride". In the early 1920s he was working on high voltage switch gear at BTH in London. In 1925, a few months after my father was born, he moved to Yeovil to join Westlands as chief draughtman. As an aside my father had his first trip in an aeroplane at Westlands. Aged 10 he cycled out to the airfield, spoke to the test pilot, Harald Penrose, and was given a trip in the back of an aeroplane about to be test flown. Can't imagine that happening today! In the late 1930s my grandfather moved to Airspeed as chief draughtsman, working with Tiltman and Neville Shute Norway. He lived in Portsmouth during the war, where they had an indoor Morrison shelter, rather than the more common Anderson shelter. When Airspeed was taken over by de Havilland my grandfather transfered across and became their design office manager at Christchurch. He retired from de Havilland in 1960, and promptly joined a local engineering company in charge of the stores. Andrew |
JasonB | 25/05/2016 07:24:31 |
![]() 25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles | Andrew, thanks for the extra photos and family history. J PS could you provide one dimension so an idea of size could be worked out, say flywheel diameter Edited By JasonB on 25/05/2016 07:27:45 |
John McNamara | 25/05/2016 07:43:33 |
![]() 1377 forum posts 133 photos | Gee Andrew |
Muzzer | 25/05/2016 07:50:34 |
![]() 2904 forum posts 448 photos | Andrew - that's quite a respectable aviation engineering family history. There definitely seems to be a genetic component to what makes us tick. In my case, it seems to be agricultural engineers and carpenters, also from the Scottish Borders - not quite in the same league perhaps! My dad came South for work with his PhD and found ICI (remember them), while his cousin (and now his son, my second cousin?) took the other route and stayed to run the farms. From what I can now surmise, it's pretty much complete as shown. The "Twisty" concept sounds right, whereby the piston is also a rotary valve, being both raised and lowered as well as rotated back and forth by the connection to the end of the crank.In the process, it opens (uncovers) the inlet and exhaust ports, a little bit like a sleeve valve engine (without a sleeve as such). Can't see the detail of the connection between the governor and the steam valve but that's not critical. Murray |
JasonB | 25/05/2016 08:35:17 |
![]() 25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles | In it's simplest for the joint between piston rod and crank could be something like this. A second top plate would support the top of the rotating bearing. It does seen a very small piston area with such a thick rod? The governor link is visible, that "ring" between the flange from the cylinder and the regulator flange would have a butterfly valve or similar. A lever from the governor to the rocker shaft and then a second lever from the shaft to the butterfly valve complets the linkage. It is there if you blow things up. Edited By JasonB on 25/05/2016 08:38:38 Edited By JasonB on 25/05/2016 08:42:50 |
John Fielding | 25/05/2016 09:32:11 |
235 forum posts 15 photos | It could be a type of sleeve valve engine. The sleeve is connected to the piston rod and moves to open and close the ports. As the exhaust seems to be directly opposite the inlet steam pipe that could work. But the piston must have been quite a small diameter compared to the cylinder outer diameter?
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Muzzer | 25/05/2016 12:52:30 |
![]() 2904 forum posts 448 photos | I expect the port timing would be controlled by suitable holes in the piston skirts, so no need for sleeve valves as such. The piston could be not much smaller than the outer wall. Although there is no need for a conventional conrod, one of the main downsides of this concept must be the greater stresses on the piston rod. It is subject to significant bending stresses, as most of the thrust is generated when the connecting pin at its greatest off-axis distance. This probably explains the hefty piston rod - possibly hollow but still quite sturdy. And although the piston motion is linear, there will be significant friction generated in the sliding piston rod bearings by the crank / connecting pin. Murray |
Andrew Johnston | 26/05/2016 11:44:59 |
![]() 7061 forum posts 719 photos | Posted by JasonB on 25/05/2016 07:24:31:
PS could you provide one dimension so an idea of size could be worked out, say flywheel diameter Jason: Flywheel diameter measures as 7.5". Thanks for the excellent 3D CAD models. It seems that it may well be a viable engine? With your workrate I expect that you'll have knocked one out by the end of the coming Bank holiday weekend. Andrew |
Andrew Johnston | 26/05/2016 11:46:51 |
![]() 7061 forum posts 719 photos | Posted by John McNamara on 25/05/2016 07:43:33:
I hope they are framed and hanging on the wall (Not near Sun). Too good to be locked away. Yes, all three of my pictures are framed, and hanging in the hall or corridor away from direct sunlight. Andrew |
Andrew Johnston | 26/05/2016 11:49:14 |
![]() 7061 forum posts 719 photos | Posted by Muzzer on 25/05/2016 07:50:34:
There definitely seems to be a genetic component to what makes us tick. Quite so, although I had no choice about being an engineer as I'm darn all use at anything else. Andrew |
Danny M2Z | 26/05/2016 12:02:49 |
![]() 963 forum posts 2 photos | Posted by Andrew Johnston on 24/05/2016 22:54:13:Here are some closer shots of the elevations:
Andrew
Andrew's drawings have a subtle quality and warmth that a cold CAD program could but hope to reproduce. Maybe not technically perfect but quite usable and easy on the eye. It's quite difficult to explain why, but I like them as a work of engineering art. * Danny M * |
Neil Wyatt | 26/05/2016 14:05:28 |
![]() 19226 forum posts 749 photos 86 articles | Posted by Andrew Johnston on 26/05/2016 11:44:59:
Posted by JasonB on 25/05/2016 07:24:31:
PS could you provide one dimension so an idea of size could be worked out, say flywheel diameter Jason: Flywheel diameter measures as 7.5". Andrew And if you want scale, I suspect those brown rectangles at the bottom will scale to just under 9" long and 3" high - allowing for mortar |
SillyOldDuffer | 26/05/2016 14:46:06 |
10668 forum posts 2415 photos | Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/05/2016 14:05:28:
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 26/05/2016 11:44:59:
Posted by JasonB on 25/05/2016 07:24:31:
PS could you provide one dimension so an idea of size could be worked out, say flywheel diameter Jason: Flywheel diameter measures as 7.5". Andrew And if you want scale, I suspect those brown rectangles at the bottom will scale to just under 9" long and 3" high - allowing for mortar Bit blurred but there's a scale in the lower right hand corner of the drawing. I think it says 1 1/2 inches to the foot which makes 7.5" mean the engine has a 5 foot flywheel. |
Neil Wyatt | 26/05/2016 15:24:50 |
![]() 19226 forum posts 749 photos 86 articles | Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 26/05/2016 14:46:06:
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/05/2016 14:05:28:
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 26/05/2016 11:44:59:
Posted by JasonB on 25/05/2016 07:24:31:
PS could you provide one dimension so an idea of size could be worked out, say flywheel diameter Jason: Flywheel diameter measures as 7.5". Andrew And if you want scale, I suspect those brown rectangles at the bottom will scale to just under 9" long and 3" high - allowing for mortar Bit blurred but there's a scale in the lower right hand corner of the drawing. I think it says 1 1/2 inches to the foot which makes 7.5" mean the engine has a 5 foot flywheel. And makes the bricks 8.5" long, looks like they left the mortar out |
SillyOldDuffer | 26/05/2016 15:29:42 |
10668 forum posts 2415 photos | Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/05/2016 15:24:50:
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 26/05/2016 14:46:06:
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 26/05/2016 14:05:28:
Posted by Andrew Johnston on 26/05/2016 11:44:59:
Posted by JasonB on 25/05/2016 07:24:31:
PS could you provide one dimension so an idea of size could be worked out, say flywheel diameter Jason: Flywheel diameter measures as 7.5". Andrew And if you want scale, I suspect those brown rectangles at the bottom will scale to just under 9" long and 3" high - allowing for mortar Bit blurred but there's a scale in the lower right hand corner of the drawing. I think it says 1 1/2 inches to the foot which makes 7.5" mean the engine has a 5 foot flywheel. And makes the bricks 8.5" long, looks like they left the mortar out Hiatus maxime deflendus! |
JasonB | 26/05/2016 15:39:34 |
![]() 25215 forum posts 3105 photos 1 articles | Neil, being in the construction industry I know all to well the variation in old imperial bricks so they can only be taken as a rough guide. Thanks Andrew for confirming a known item looks like 2" scale or 1/6th would be a nice size to model it in and a 10" flywheel will fit nicely on the lathe, though it's not quite such a nice scale to get to suit nominal sizes, the original 1/8 of the drawing is better for that. Also good to know that all that macheneryu and tooling in the house is doing a good job blocking out the daylight |
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