John Haine | 30/01/2011 11:00:24 |
5563 forum posts 322 photos | After further experience and thought... I discovered that I was cutting too fast - hangover from tipped tools! Slowing the lathe down solved the finish problem, can now get near-mirror finish, excellent. This is without feeding the tool "backwards" on the finish cut or raising it slightly. Small problem with cutting edge getting deformed - Chris at Ally Pally suggested that this was due to unsufficient tip rounding, so need to hone a bit more off the HSS steel square blank to improve that. I was also wondering what the actual cutting angles were and how to set up the angles on a conventional grinder that holds the tool bit "flat" rather than "diagonally" on its edge against a cup wheel (think of a Worden), so did a bit of geometry. You need to know by how much the tool should be angled in the horizontal and vertical planes to give the equivalent "diamond" angle. There is a simple formula as it turns out. If the "diagonal" angle is d, (d=30 degrees in the usual tool), the H and V angles should be arctan[tan(d)/1.4142] . For 30 degree diagonal angle H and V work out to 22.2 degrees. With 12 degrees cant forwards and sideways on the tool the side and front rake then work out at 10.2 degrees.....seems to me this might be a bit much for some materials, but the formula lets you work out alternatives. For brass for example you would want H and V to be 12 degrees to give a flat-topped tool when held in the tool holder (i.e. zero rake). The end face of the bit will then be angled at 16.7 degrees along the diagonal. Or, for 8 degrees top and side rake, H and V need to be 20 degrees, giving a "diamond" angle of 27 degrees. I hope someone else finds this information useful. Edited By John Haine on 30/01/2011 11:01:02 |
mgj | 01/02/2011 06:52:01 |
1017 forum posts 14 photos | John, like Chris, I have done much better with the curved surface, rather than a flat Quorned one. (Except on brass - predictably brass and bronze don'tt like the high rake, and grab - AKA as not feeding fast enough) Like Chris too I have rounded the cutting point a lot, and one can get a very good finish at some speed, and on .200 cuts.. One mod. - I have taken 13 degrees off the front face, so my bit looks a bit like a reversed screwcutting job. That means I don't have to offset the tool post, because I have a degree of clearance, and thats a big advantage. Unfortunately the diameter of bar one can face is not great,but its a lot better than constantly pratting about with the toolpost every toolchange - unless you have a Stevens type of holder. I have one, but 2 lathes, so the second tool is one of the Oz ones. |
jomac | 01/02/2011 10:04:42 |
113 forum posts | Hi i read all the posts on the tangental tool holder, and because Im'e like a lot of you, I cannot afford to spend much money on tooling, So I make my own. First I cut a piece of 16mm cold rolled square 110mm long, Cut a piece of 10mmX50mm flat steel. Put the flat, length wise in the tilting vice, at 45degrees used an 8mm end mill and cut a groove a little less than half the diagonal measurement, the center of the cut about 6mm from the edge Then cut the oblong into two sections. One of these I ground a 15 degree angle at the rear end of this, so that it was pointing to the left, ie, towards the chuck when it was mounted in the tool holder, then ground a 12 degree angle onto the front edge of the 16mm square, then clamped the flat section so that the groove was at the front and the top of this was flush with top of the 16mm, I also ground a deep chamfer on the edges I was going to weld together. I know this sounds difficult, its not, what is, is doing it by your self without proper clamps, or a second pair of hands, anyway you only need a small tack weld to start with, that way you can bend it into the right position. fully weld it togther when you are happy with the position. Clean up the welds The reason I offset the tool only 15degrees, was that it gave me more clearance. Next I put a spotweld at the rear of the second piece of steel,(to act as a pivot point) I put a 1/4 inch HSS in postion and drilled as close to the HSS to tap for a 6mm round head bolt, and clear drilled the welded one, plus recessed to half cover the head, Bolted it together and with the HSS below the marks, cut and ground off the exess, without weakening the welds. I made a sharpening jig out of timber and, the same as in the model engineer article, it works OK, I also made one out of 12mm steel, milling a slot upwards 12 degrees and angled about 22 degrees, That work too, The timber jig is good for grinding 1/4 round HSS, Now the big question is does it work, YES. gives a good finish with both bits, BUT if I made another one, I would use two locking bolts, as when taking very heavy cuts the tool bit gets pushed down and below the the work piece,( I had to use a lot of strength to get it to lock up properly). I tried various angles of attack for the tool bit, to arrive at a reasonable result. You might do better. because I also added a 3 degree angle, to give clearance, It might not need it ?????. Good luck. John Holloway. |
Norman Willcox | 25/04/2011 11:12:39 |
19 forum posts | Has anyone got some sketches of successful home-made Tangential cutting tool holders please? I have just made a simple prototype but there is insufficient clearance to the centre. I can't mount directly on the cross slide on my Harrison 9" Norman |
NJH | 25/04/2011 12:14:05 |
![]() 2314 forum posts 139 photos | Hi Norman MEW 156 page 12. Regards Norman (!!) |
jomac | 25/04/2011 12:14:06 |
113 forum posts | Norman Hi, Can you under stand what I did with my tangental tool holder, In the description above, So far it cuts very well with both, the square and round 1/4" HSS. Mine has an offset to the left but if you do one that is straight, you only need to mill, or just do cuts with a hacksaw and file, and not do fiddle welding. Can't send drawings or photo's yet!!!. cause I need my grandson (who is down south in Victoria), to help, trouble is he just started Uni doing Vetinary science. and cannot come up here to help. By the way. I modified mine, to use two and not one, cap head locking bolt. With one bolt there was a tendency for the tool bit to drop down below the center line, when taking heavy cuts of 3mm or more. Now it does not move at all. Also on the square bit, Hone a small radius at the front, it will give an even better finish. PS. I was turning something using the round tool bit, and did not move the saddle back far enough, turned the chuck round by hand, ouch!!! drove the razor sharp bit, 1/4" into the back of my thumb. John Holloway.
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Les Jones 1 | 25/04/2011 12:39:27 |
2292 forum posts 159 photos | Hi Norman, I don't have any drawings but I have some pictures on my website of the one I made based on the article in issue 156 of MEW that HJH mentions. This is the page on my website. I hope that helps. Les. Edited By Les Jones 1 on 25/04/2011 12:39:42 |
Norman Willcox | 25/04/2011 14:16:52 |
19 forum posts | Hi NJH, Jomac and Les Jones1, Thank you for your replies. Search as I might yesterday I could not find the download of MEW 156 page 12. Sorry if I am being a dim forum user. I have found Jomac's description and I will absorb it but I have only a MIG welder, which seems to be failing in power, and I have been forbidden to use it because of my pacemaker - advice I have ignored several times, safely so far. I am sure that I could not achieve the required joint though. I viewed the pictures by Les Jones and this is a bit similar to the one I have made. I found someone else's pictures yesterday, showing the double angle set-up on the milling machine to make the slot at 12 degrees in two directions. I cannot find them today!!! I tried to copy this design, though I put the bolts in from the tail-stock side. This fellow bolted his holder directly to the cross-slide but I can't do that. I think I may be able to make my prototype work by cutting off the head and bolting it on the underside of a steel section to be held in the toolpost, thus dropping it. I would like to see the MEW version. Why can't I find these recent posts on this thread? Norman |
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