By continuing to use this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Find out more
Forum sponsored by:
Forum sponsored by Forum House Ad Zone

Novice beginner

advice

All Topics | Latest Posts

Search for:  in Thread Title in  
<< First < Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next > Last >>
Trevorh04/03/2010 12:56:30
avatar
316 forum posts
89 photos
Hi all
This weekend I will be mostly trying to master the art of Riveting - last attempted as an apprentice (hands up all who know what one of those were)
 
 Thinking back I am sure It took quite a lot of accuracy to form a good tight dome head and in the process many bruises to the hand....
 
I have read the article on riveting here on the site but I guess I just need to have a go
 
cheers

Trevorh12/03/2010 14:15:25
avatar
316 forum posts
89 photos
OK I give up
 
how do you work out the correct length the rivet needs to be to get a good shaped head on it, Is there an easy calculation?
 
I think I need to come up with a different method of forming the head as it will be very close to the wheel casting
 
At least I know why they sell the rivet in packs of a hundred - hammer rash not good


David Clark 112/03/2010 14:46:17
avatar
3357 forum posts
112 photos
10 articles
Hi There
1.6 to 1.7 times the diameter of the rivet protruding.
That is from Model Engineering a Foundation course.
 
I always used to make up a spacer so I could file rivets to correct length.
regards David
JasonB12/03/2010 17:37:32
avatar
25215 forum posts
3105 photos
1 articles
As David says its just over one and a half times the dia but varies a bit depending on your snap.
 
I annealed the end of one of my snaps and turned the end down to a smaller parallel end then hardened again, this should help stop it fouling the rim, will take a picture later so you can see what its like.
 
Jason
JasonB13/03/2010 10:18:57
avatar
25215 forum posts
3105 photos
1 articles
This pic shows how I turned down the end of the snaps to give a parallel end as the usual tapered end meant that the body of teh snap fouled the wheel rim. You can also see on them where I have ground a flat to give even more clearance for either the radius on the inside of the tee ring web to rim joint or to clear the tie plates on teh rear wheels.
 


 

You can see the usual shape of the snaps here
Jason
 

Edited By JasonB on 13/03/2010 10:20:24

Edited By Katy Purvis on 01/06/2015 12:49:44

Trevorh14/03/2010 13:40:14
avatar
316 forum posts
89 photos
Excellant,
Thanks gents, That has helped a lot 
I will attempt to copy the snaps shown and try again to see if i can improve on the results
 
cheers
Trevorh06/04/2010 11:43:21
avatar
316 forum posts
89 photos
Time for an Update
Its official - I am no good at riverting, I have never known such an annoyoing process with such differing results, I need a time out
 
I am going to start to machine the front axel, this at least should be quite straight forward,
I have already looked up the relevant tolerance for the 1/2" bearing surfaces.
 
I managed to scrounge some BMS 1" bar - its a little on the large side as the main body only needs to be 3/4" reduced to 1/2" at each end but its free so I can't complain too much
 
Just going back to the riveting, I am going to try to use the hammer action on my drill to see if I can get a better consistancy/ repeatability
 
Can some one tell me when the enjoyment factor kicks in.... 
 
Cheers
JasonB06/04/2010 12:24:57
avatar
25215 forum posts
3105 photos
1 articles
Thats sometimes the best way, if its not going right then leave it for a few weeks and hopefully they will come out better next time.
 
Jason
mgj06/04/2010 18:08:58
1017 forum posts
14 photos
Kerbtrawler - I love riveting.
 
I started thinking it was going to be the easiest thing.
 
Then I found you need 3 hands, and a spare for setting the rivet. The whole thing became an exercise in frustration. What a PITA.
 
Now I have a different solution. I bought an air hammer - a scaled down version of the big air hammers the pros use!!!!. (£20 from Axminster)
 
Them I turned the hammer tools that came with it rather like Jason did with his snaps. Extra - long ones in silver steel as well to get right into the bottom of the tender, but the easy ones to use are pretty short. The rivet head cavity is machined with a ball nosed slot drill to size.
 
You put the "anvil" snap in a vice - making sure its supported at the bottom. You then have two hands to insert the rivet and support the job in the "anvil". Set the rivet with a small hammer and a bit of tube. Pick up air hammer with reduced air  (40psi or so). Pull trigger.
 
2 seconds later you have a perfect double domed head rivet.
 
Absolutely perfick. Easy quick and painless
 
Oh and don't oversquinge the rivet or it will spread the base material. And you'll have irretrievably curved hornplates,  and it becomes a  sod to align the crank and 2nd motion shafts. So tight, but not too tight - even the dummies around the firebox.
 

 
 

Edited By mgj on 06/04/2010 18:09:59

Martin Johnson 124/05/2010 11:00:22
320 forum posts
1 photos
Probably a bit late for advice to Kerbtrawler, but a very important consideration not mentioned before is:
 
HOW ARE YOU GOING TO TRANSPORT IT?
 
In 6" scale you are looking at a big plant trailer and a four track  or trannie van to pull it.
 
In 4" scale a sturdy trailer (rated at least 750 kg) and a reasonable size car to pull it.  You could legally just about use a trailer without brakes, but I wouldn't recommend it.  Quite a few of my rally mates put the engine in a trannie van and then pull a caravan for accommodation.  You are going to need the caravan if you want to get the max from steam rallies.
There is also the question are you licensed to drive with a large trailer? - the law has been changed within the last few years.
 
3" scale becomes a lot more manageable and an unbraked trailer from the likes of Halfords will suffice.  It would probably go in the back of the car with the chimney off.
 
2" scale is OK for going in the car, but will need ramps etc to get up into the car.   A small trailer would probably be easier and keep the oil & soot out of the family motor.
 
Best wishes,
 
Martin
Martin Johnson 124/05/2010 11:04:26
320 forum posts
1 photos
Think I have ended up with a post on the wrong thread.
Sorry
Martin
Martin Johnson 124/05/2010 11:06:01
320 forum posts
1 photos

Probably a bit late for advice to Kerbtrawler, but a very important consideration not mentioned before is:
 
HOW ARE YOU GOING TO TRANSPORT IT?
 
In 6" scale you are looking at a big plant trailer and a four track  or trannie van to pull it.
 
In 4" scale a sturdy trailer (rated at least 750 kg) and a reasonable size car to pull it.  You could legally just about use a trailer without brakes, but I wouldn't recommend it.  Quite a few of my rally mates put the engine in a trannie van and then pull a caravan for accommodation.  You are going to need the caravan if you want to get the max from steam rallies.
There is also the question are you licensed to drive with a large trailer? - the law has been changed within the last few years.
 
3" scale becomes a lot more manageable and an unbraked trailer from the likes of Halfords will suffice.  It would probably go in the back of the car with the chimney off.
 
2" scale is OK for going in the car, but will need ramps etc to get up into the car.   A small trailer would probably be easier and keep the oil & soot out of the family motor.
 
Best wishes,
 
Martin
Trevorh27/05/2010 12:18:04
avatar
316 forum posts
89 photos
Hi Martin, thanks for the comments about moving the beast.
Luckily I am about 4 years away from having to look at that aspect. I am still building the front wheels, so a long way to go yet........
 
cheers

Stovepipe27/05/2010 18:40:53
196 forum posts
A "trannie" van sounds quite intriguing.!
 
Dennis
Trevorh03/07/2010 21:19:25
avatar
316 forum posts
89 photos
Hi All, sorry for not posting recently - too much work and not on the traction engine unfortunately, but I'm back now and have just finished machining the front axal
One good thing about traveling around the country working in different places , as soon as you mention the project you can alway get hold of large quantities of off cuts from the work shops, this is where the front axal has been obtained from - large lump of BMS 1" round bar, took quite a lot of machining down to the 3/4" body and 1/2" at the bearing ends but it was good lathe practice especially because it required the use a travelling steady, which until this point I had never used since purchasing my Warco, And yes you guessed it, it kept getting in the way, so I have modified the position of it ( moved it further forward of the Tool post ) this means that as the cutter comes into contact with the material,  the steady is already in contact with the bar.
 
Next needs to be the bearings, again free off cuts obtained.
I'll let you know how I get on, No I haven't forgotten about the riveting but I need to progress these parts first.
 
cheers
Trevorh23/07/2010 13:25:57
avatar
316 forum posts
89 photos
Ok The bronze bearings were quite straight forward to machine, played a little with the running fit/tolerance.
Now machining the remainder of the parts that will hold/fix the position of the hubs
 
Once I have all of these then I will have run out of excuses not to start the riveting
 
cheers
JasonB23/07/2010 15:55:02
avatar
25215 forum posts
3105 photos
1 articles
So you will have them all rivited up for next months meeting then!!
 
Good to hear you are making progress.
 
Jason

Edited By JasonB on 23/07/2010 15:55:17

Trevorh08/08/2010 19:56:38
avatar
316 forum posts
89 photos
NOT A HAPPY BUNNY
I am sure some one said somewhere beware of the Plastow drawings......
Now I know why, just thought I would try and peice together the main parts of the front wheel hub assembly, oh dear...... the drawings are suppose to be 1:1 scale so where its a bad copy I measured the distances, no problem there but I rather stupidly assumed that who ever had originally drawn them could add up......errrm NO
 
Got to remake the front axal and the bearings again because I am short by 1/8" at both ends and same on the bearings
 
Just goes to show you check and check again
Luckily I have spare material to remake the bearings, hope to visit a couple of companies next week where I can pick up a new peice for the axal
Oh well back to the drawing board or Not
 
I will of course keep you posted


JasonB08/08/2010 20:15:58
avatar
25215 forum posts
3105 photos
1 articles
There are a few other errors listed here
Trevorh09/08/2010 09:40:30
avatar
316 forum posts
89 photos
Thanks Jason, I guess I am going to be checking all of the dimensions from here on in, I will start a list of errors and probably post these at a later date See you all at the next meeting
 
cheers
<< First < Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next > Last >>

All Topics | Latest Posts

Please login to post a reply.

Magazine Locator

Want the latest issue of Model Engineer or Model Engineers' Workshop? Use our magazine locator links to find your nearest stockist!

Find Model Engineer & Model Engineers' Workshop

Sign up to our Newsletter

Sign up to our newsletter and get a free digital issue.

You can unsubscribe at anytime. View our privacy policy at www.mortons.co.uk/privacy

Latest Forum Posts
Support Our Partners
cowells
Sarik
MERIDIENNE EXHIBITIONS LTD
Shopping Partners
Subscription Offer

Latest "For Sale" Ads
Latest "Wanted" Ads
Get In Touch!

Do you want to contact the Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop team?

You can contact us by phone, mail or email about the magazines including becoming a contributor, submitting reader's letters or making queries about articles. You can also get in touch about this website, advertising or other general issues.

Click THIS LINK for full contact details.

For subscription issues please see THIS LINK.

Digital Back Issues

Social Media online

'Like' us on Facebook
Follow us on Facebook

Follow us on Twitter
 Twitter Logo

Pin us on Pinterest

 

Donate

donate