Toyota Hydrogen

Yes it is a matter of "concerns" rather than bans etc at the moment. But sorting it all out will delay the introduction of hydrogen, unless they just continue to ignore the issue.

Another issue is raised with "blue hydrogen" as the carbon capture schemes it relies on have been found to be highly problematic also. Some of them flat out do not work. Others have found to be not as good as predicted. Others have been found to be fudging their figures. So lot of work to be done there too. LINK https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/2021/07/20/top-5-reasons-carbon-capture-and-storage-ccs-is-bogus/

So much money is involved in this stuff that there is a lot of smoke and mirrors surrounding it.

Edited By Hopper on 12/06/2023 10:24:00

Did anyone follow the Guy Martin TV series about Electricity Generation in the UK?

It was a very informative, especially the bit where we cannot use all the Wind Farm energy because the Grid would melt. Thus we are paying for them not to generate, as this is cheaper than renewing the Grid. Yet they are still planning to build even bigger wind farms.

The burying of the old Wind Turbines was another big No No in my book. Apparently the newer ones are degradable.

An approach on one of the Scottish Isles is the way to go. Use excess wind generation to go into storage batteries and Hydrogen generation, the latter is later used to generate electricity for use on the Island.

All in all a very good series.

Regards

Gray,

A bit of light relief regarding EVs -v- ICE pollution .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ8zePnOlF8 ... there may be a longer version somewhere on YouTube.

Her heart is definitely in the right place but, as others have mentioned here, to have credibility one needs to have a reasonable understanding of the subject.

Still, I suspect there is no such thing as bad PR ...so at the end of the day she has probably achieved way more than she had hoped when she kinda aggressively knocked on his car window.

Ches

Edit: It's almost too good to be true....I don't think they are actors, but the two of them should start their own TV/YT series on various environmental subjects

Edited By Ches Green UK on 12/06/2023 10:41:45

One of the problems is planning issues

These are big permanent projects and if you get planning permission... you build it, even if it can't be connected

In 2, 3 5 10 years planning may be refused or investigated or an inquiry

So you get it up and 99% of your planning issues disappear

If our planning system wasn't so medieval then things would be far more sensible

Hi Ady,

The ones Guy was talking about were out in the North Sea. I not sure Planning permission applies out there, but I might be wrong?

Regards

Gray,

You need planning permission for the onshore infrastructure, without which the turbines cannot connect to the grid and so are into chocolate fireguard territory. Ideal place for turbines is up hills, but put pylons up there? Wash your mouth out, you have to bury the cable, but if you're up a hill the soil could be very thin, so that's a non starter as well, unless you fancy blasting a trench through rock

From a truly alternative perspective, just consider for a moment, where would we be now, if there never was public power generation??? What if the ‘country house’ lighting sets were as far as we ever got, the local garage having a DIY generator for wireless batteries. Quite a few technicians or home mechanics created their own sets pre-war. If each household and every business was responsible for their own power production, would the current problem (unintentional pun) be a more simple issue, or a lot worse? On one hand, there’s a few properties here in East Sussex not far from me that don’t have mains supply of any sort, electricity has to be generated by DIY wind turbine, and Lister CS startomatic. Some years ago I read about swimming pools using a gas engined generator for power and waste heat from exhaust and cooling to heat the pool. Also I believe there’s still a tomato producer in Kent running a gas engine from biomass fermentation, the exhaust is piped into the growing area , the engine drives the generator for lighting and supplementary heat and air management.

I live in an urban area, so a small scale windmill isn't going to work, and anyway there is precious little wind here today, and solar doesn't work at night, so if I had to generate my own electricity I'd use a diesel engine, and as it's small scale it would be quite inefficient compared to a proper power station. Might get away with it in the cold winter months as I could use the waste heat to warm the house, but for most of the year I'd be pumping out a lot more CO2, NOX and particulates than I would by relying on the grid.

Edited By duncan webster on 13/06/2023 00:02:23

Surely, Duncan, you would generate from solar and store into batteries for nights and cloudy periods?

Regarding planning permission and pylons: I have always wondered why 'they' don't put a modest horizontal wind turbine on top of every electricity pylon? The pylons already exist, so no planning permission required, and they offer an easy distribution network.

There must be thousands of electricity pylons already in place.

Only $10,000 for a battery to back up your solar system! Tesla has the software to use your EV car battery to power your house overnight and recharge from solar during the day, all the time keeping enough power in the battery to get you to work in the morning. But it has not been implemented yet. And of course is shortens the battery life in your Tesla.

Edited By Hopper on 13/06/2023 02:18:41

Who knows which is the number one greenhouse gas? Methane? Carbon Dioxide? No. It's water vapour and is responsible for around 30 degC of warming. Most of the earth would be uninhabitable without it.

You can therefore argue that burning hydrogen creates the greenhouse gas "water vapour". A truth, but an insignificant truth designed to persuade the scientifically challenged.

I'll get my hat.

I'd like to know how we are going to charge all these electric cars when we 'have' to have them..?

We currently either generate too much power (as has been said) so have to pay wind turbine owners / operators not to produce (but with this it would not meet the needs if everyone had battery cars) or we have to import power because there is no wind!

Nuclear is crazy expensive, especially long term and thanks to our culture of litigation and arse covering we have invented a whole industry for so called 'health and safety' people to think up ways to stop people doing anything.. Other countries round Europe don't seem to be in our position .. christ, a small archaeological group out in a field in the middle of nowhere with a paint brush and a pointing trowel.. fencing, safety boots, high viz and hard hats.. what the hell is going to fall on their heads .. the sky??!! but someone in an office (who invariably has never actually done anything but has an IOSH / NEBOSH and no common sense) has said they have to ware them for H & S reasons and to comply with company policy.. we really have gone mad and are now breeding stupidity into people.

Just look at Hinkley Point.. crazy over budget, miles behind schedule .. I know a few that work there. One of which was prevented from going on site (subcontractor) for 'H&S' reasons .. they had the wrong colour lanyards on their site passes (supplied by Hinkley) - took 2 days to to get right colour (whilst being paid).

If it spins round and looks like it will hurt - don't put your hand in it... sorry, going off on one there!!

If half the subsidies / investment was made into tidal power generation (there is beginning to be some, certainly where I live but most are experimental).

Tidal power turbines spaced around the country will always have some of them at peak tidal flow there for full power generation with all the others either reducing or ramping up (but still able to produce significant amounts of power).

More so, tidal flow is predictable hundreds of years into the future.. we know exactly how much we can generate and where.

Scale would be something of an issue but the energy in the moving tide means you need far fewer turbines per population than wind.

Back to electric cars, how are all these people who live on terraced streets going to charge them? Extension leads out over the pavement? who is liable when someone trips over the cable!

We are going to need dozens and dozens of charge points at service stations in order for everyone to be able to get where they are going in a reasonable time, only takes a couple of minutes to fill an ICE car up with juice and peoples convenience is what makes them go with something or not.. sales of EV's are dropping fairly rapidly if the news is to believed (sky news call in / survey) - cost of charging (more expensive than driving a diesel in some cases), unable to find enough charge points for journeys ..etc etc but the biggle they were quoting is resale value.. vast majority of people who responded who owned or had owned an EV (while I was watching - about an hour and a half) said EV were a massive White Elephant rather than the future.

I suppose we need technology - especially battery - to move forward a bit before it is truly viable.

What about the distribution network ? If every house in my village had a proper charge point fitted then Western Power would probably have to upgrade the whole overhead supply to the village and certainly from the transformer through the underground to the houses, it's on it's knees as it is.. and that's just 1 village.

I'm all for change for the better but lets get a grip of the real heavy polluters first..

China, India, US etc. I know they are beginning to change but they are the main issue.

As for carbon offsetting by planting trees.. what an utter joke. 78% failure rate for the new trees (from country file I believe)..

Sorry... I'll get mi coat.. Anyone what this box?

Edited By Taf_Pembs on 13/06/2023 08:36:12

Edited By Taf_Pembs on 13/06/2023 08:36:52

A few comments.

Not in any particular order.

Quite few years ago,a Hillman Imp was modified to run on Hydrogem.The cylinders took all the interior space except for the driver!

Times have moved on, but hyfrogen needs to be stored under high pressure (Wire wound cylinders and all that! )

Hydrogen does not occur naturally, so has to be generated, in some way, electyrically or chemically.

As said, it burns and is therefore likely to ,produce the NOx of which everyone wants to be rid.

Quite rightly, engines, or electric motors, generators, wind or tidal turbines will need lubrication; so mineral oils or their synthetic lookalikes, will still be needed. (And that needs energy! From where does that come? )

Which does more damage to the environment as a whole, making an electrically powered car, with its battery, or the old "fashioned" ICE

Anyone thinking that they haven't improved much needs to compare fuel efficiency, oil consumption, emisions and durability of an ICE of the 1920s with what we run today. :

Air Standard Efficiency depends on compressiion ratio. 1920s 4 or 5:1, currently 10 or 11:1.

Oil Control / emissions?

Cars no longer need to be serviced, oil changes and adjustment every 1,000 miles. Modern vehicles will run for 10,000 miles between services (Some 20, 000 ) and use almost no oil in that interval.

Q E D ?

Battery technology will benefit from less than a century of development. It needs to!

If you brim the tank of a 1 litre naturally aspirated Euro 6 compliant petrol car it will cover very nearly 500 miles before needing refilling. EVs need further development to match / surpass that.  It may well come, in time.

Next, as mentioned, we might well be concerned about Pm 2.5 particulates from tyres or brakes, (friction materials and discs / drums) , rather than tailpipe emissions.

Things are never simple or straightforward.

Howard  Typos removed I hope

Edited By Howard Lewis on 13/06/2023 13:19:55

Just seen an update from an electrical channel I follow regarding electric cars charging, the insurance companies are now saying commercial ( non domestic) ve chargers must be 7.5 meters away from buildings. Yes, seven and a half meters, that makes in town business difficult if not impossible for employees and visitors to top up their electric vehicles 🤔🤔🤔🤔. If that’s the case for batteries in cars, how far away will they want hydrogen parked??

@Taf_Pembs: All common questions, but all a bit defeatist.

In WW 2; did we say "Oh blimey" we haven't got enough aircraft or resources to fight and repel the Nazi air force, so we will just have to surrender"?

Nope, we just got on with it and worked out how to defeat them, and built what we needed.

Yes, there are - and will be - problems, but we won't solve them by saying how challenging it might be.

Just a quick example might be to lift the kerbstones along each pavement and replace them with purpose made blocks designed to carry electrical cables and have inbuilt charging sockets, for electric cars parked in the street. Yes, that will be disruptive but roads have been dug up for gas, water, sewerage, telecoms, cable television supply etc. and we all got over it.

My Son-in-Law has a massive solar array on his roof. It stopped sending electricity to the Grid early in May. Apparently a component has failed. When he enquired last week he was told it would be 6 weeks to get the part. As they need to get the part from China. It seems a post on Facebook yesterday brought the delivery date forward to this morning. They are currently fitting the unit.

It seems the theory of a renewable energy is one thing but the practice is a different matter.

I don't think matters are helped by the UK taxation no longer giving companies tax relief for their stock. It is simple really no tax relief, no stock.

Of course there is no compensation for the lost energy production. There is also the added insult that even though the energy prices have risen dramatically in recent months. The amount he receives per unit for his electricity has stayed at a pittance.

This reminds me of the saga about "a Horseshoe Nail"

Regards

Gray,

As usual nobody is taking a look at the greater picture just finding alternatives to the current process. The real solution is to reduce the population by 75%. There will be both fewer vehicles needed and more land available to grow fuel crops,

Are you first in line for the carousel then? See Logan's Run, everyone over 30 gets the chop. I bet that covers most of us.

Which "greater picture" is that and what is the problem that needs a "real solution"?

Martin.