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"Kiv" or Kiev?

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KWIL04/04/2022 11:41:22
3681 forum posts
70 photos

Eryri , Eyrie sounds the same to me. So Snowdonia is full of eagle's nests.wink

Bill Phinn04/04/2022 12:51:09
1076 forum posts
129 photos
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 04/04/2022 10:34:42:

I've never quite understood why people get uptight about pronouncing placenames the way the people who live there do.

Neil

Probably because, as in the case of Snowdonia, there's a well-established and more easily pronounceable exonym native English speakers have developed an attachment to.

How many of us, I wonder (Welsh people included), would be behind a campaign to persuade us to refer to Germany, in an English language context, as Deutschland?

SillyOldDuffer04/04/2022 13:48:12
10668 forum posts
2415 photos

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 04/04/2022 10:34:42:

...

There's currently a campaign to promote the use of Eryri for Snowdonia, something I wholeheartedly support

Neil

Ironically, the campaign is led by Mr John Pughe Roberts. Another case of the over-zealotry of converts - Roberts isn't a Welsh name!

Mount Snowden and surrounds have always had Welsh names. Don't see why Welshmen in Wales shouldn't use them if they want to! Probably unwise to insist on confusing tourists and the rest of the world unnecessarily though.

Practicalities matter: don't know if it's still true, but there used to be more English speakers in Naples than Welsh speakers in Cardiff.

Can't fight nostalgia. Round here we want to reinstate the Kingdom of Dumnonia, bring back Conan the Merry, and build a wall to keep out the Durotriges. Game of Thrones? You ain't seen nothing yet!

Dave

Nigel Graham 208/04/2022 22:46:10
3293 forum posts
112 photos

The Co-Op is one that has quietly re-named the poultry dish in its shops.

'''.

Isn't Mt. Snowden itself, locally Yr Wyddfa? Why would using that confuse tourists though? Most place names in Wales are in their original Welsh or slightly Anglicised form - though I recall a friend with a broad Scots accent really struggled to pronounce the village, Ystradfellte. I think its' Ustrad -v-elth-te; but the 'v' sound immediately after a 'd' is not easy for English natives either. Still, I struggle with that famous canal aqueduct. (Struggled to walk along it too. It demands a Dibnah-esque love of heights!)

Further back is a reference to Mt. Everest: that's not its local name! I think its something like "Chomolungma"

'.

The etymology of geography is interesting, in that very many old names that look so exotic, even of English villages, translate as something quite mundane and are often simply geographical. Some are, or include, founders' names; but many are functional, for navigation and identifying location.

Near my home, for example, is Chesil Beach. Chesil: O.E. Cisel... = 'shingle'. Which it is, a huge shingle bay-bar.

Norway abounds in Kvitt, Blå and Snå - fjells. (I think the accented-a letter is correct - from memory.) Respectively, White, Blue and Snow. As for fjell, and foss and bekk - plenty of them North of Thirwall Viaduct. Indeed, there is a 'Fell Beck', draining the SE slopes of Ingleborough and its associated Simon Fell and falling spectacularly into Gaping Gill cave. (Foss - waterfall - appears more often as Force.)

The Americas show a huge difference between the original and colonial names. The former were usually geographical or perhaps related to a tribal name. Those applied by British and European settlers reflect their personal names or Old Word home-towns.

++

One day I was chatting to a group of acquaintances in the North of England. Two of them were arguing over how to pronounce the town name C-O-L-N-E.

"Cone!" insisted one.

"Coll-n!" her friend tried to correct her, in her own, equally rich, NW English accent.

This went on for a bit, then I interjected:

"If you two Lancashire Lasses can't agree what to call your own towns, what hope has a Southerner like me of getting it right?

One of them subsequently qualified as a teacher and went to work on the Continent. As a mutual friend of White rather then Red Rose affiliation put it, "She's teaching the Italians to speak Lancashire!"

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