Warco MD30B Major Mill

Hi Paul, it is certainly a bit of a mystery, but I have found two other illustrations of the two different machines, the first one is from about 1985, and in this one it has Minor on the belt and pulley cover. The second one is from 2002, and both illustrations seem to show the same machine and both have Major on the cover.

The only other dimensions you could check are the diameters of the spindle and the column and overall height, the spindle speed ranges are also a little different.

Your central locking of the head arrangement could be similar to the type shown below.

The yellow colouring on the handle bosses, seems to be started in their 2007 catalogue, and in which the Minor machine didn't appear, and I guess was discontinued by then.

Regards Nick.

Hi Nigel.

The Youtube video I put in was the wrong one but there is another one called TRU-LINE-8 RF30 KIT showing a single nut version, Like my Warco MD30B.

I would be interested to know whether the cut in line with the column at the rear of the head exists or has been left out when the casting was machined. The centre line clamping which would be similar to the photo by Nicholas Farr would not be very effective if the rear of the head could flex. The two holes without bolts might have been a legacy from the last of the batch of castings still unused when the modification was made. If the cut is present, bolts could be fitted, but not tightened enough to prevent the head being raised and lowered and they would restrict any springing when the single clamp was tightened.

A lot of the drawbacks with the round column design can be circumvented bu careful planning before cutting metal. The quill has 5" movement and a lot of jobs can be completed without needing to move the head up and down. With a er collet chuck and a set of collets, you can also hold many sizes of drills as well as milling cutters and not have to allow for the much longer drill chuck.

Hi old mart,

I sent diogenes II some photos which shows under the castings and I don't think it has any slit in the back because when the nut is tightened it is rock steady with no way of moving. If still had the slit at the back it would be impossible to stop any movement. I am hoping he will share with the group as i can't seem to upload them from my phone so sent them to his emali instead.

I have got er32 collets and chuck with MT3 taper.

I have been thinking about the centralising problem and think if you scribe a centre line on the table which aligns with the central point of the two bolt tab you can use this as a reference point for a centre point drill and that should ensure the head is square to the table. Do you think that would work?

So I've seen a few more pics and I'm inclined to now see it being 'as supplied'; not least 'cos the counterbores in the original picture don't look like they've ever had nuts tightened up in them, the lock mechanism is indeed by split cotter, and the casting is shaped to accomodate the counterbore for the single nut.

I'll make an album & post some pictures in due course, I've only just got in....

Also the table and overall condition look nice for a vintage machine, so I'd call it all good.

..with these machines (and here it'd be useful to have other views), I found that the bolts that hold it to the stand need only be nipped up lightly to start with - when I first put mine on the stand I bolted it down firmly and then wondered why the the table travel felt so stiff.. ..'feel your way' with the handles as you gradually tighten the base bolts down.

Then cut some metal and give the machine a few hours hours work to settle it all down, and then you can start to make adjustments and deal with any issues as they make themselves apparent.

Unfortunately any mark on the bed will likely be obscured by the work or vise when the need arises for changing the height part way through a job. Possibly a straight ground bar could be fitted in the collet and in conjunction with the quill movement be brought into the same position after the head is moved. You would have to find just how true one would turn out to be by trial and error.

The lack of the cut at the back is good news, later batches of that mill would not have the bolt holes in them.

 Checking the tramm on the museums round column mill with a skim cut with an 80mm diameter shell mill gives witness marks in both directions when cutting one direction in the Xaxis, but only one set of lines when going the other way, good enough for our requirements.

Edited By old mart on 28/03/2023 17:43:41

Edited By old mart on 28/03/2023 17:44:38

Hi Paul, I agree with Old Mart that there is no point in scribing a mark on the table, as he says, it may well be covered by the work you have on the table. There is no real need to have the head exactly square to the table, but if you really want it to be, you can just use a suitable square across the table and line your head up to that. The problem with the head going out of line, is once you start any machining and need to raise or lower the head, you are most likely to lose the original alinement to the work you have already done, hence the alinement idea that is shown in the video link that you posted. The main thing is to have the head raised to a position where any change of tooling that is needed, can be done without having to raise or lower the head or even to swing it left or right, these machines have a good amount of quill travel to do this in most cases, but you do have to plan your work in advance to get the head in the most suitable position. As an aside to all this, I do find it an advantage to be able to swing the head out of the way while setting up and clamping work to the table.

Regards Nick.

Hi Nigel.

I have finally got to the bottom of this.

My Warco was built with just the one pinch bolt which is mainly found on the Ajax 30 model, some Rf30 and some Warco MD30's.

The actual machine is made By a company in Taiwan Called Complex machine. and most companies including Axminster and Chester amongst many others.

The tramming I have now sorted hopefully, was adjusted by loosening the four bolts holding the head to the the base X&Y axis table and sliding in shim sheet, It is now around 0.0005mm or what ever the metric reading of a dial test indicator outer digit should read.. Which according to one person is about as perfect as you can get without trying to find a shim sheet thin enough to actually make a perfect zero. It took a shim of 0.05mm and 0.01mm to get it to that, and to be quite honest if that isn't good enough then sod it! it'll do for me when I want to make my bits for my bike,I think that kind of discrepancy isn't really going to be noticed.

I am not sure if this is going to work but I am trying to post a couple of snaps of my first Tram adjust.

The superfast broadband team finally completed their installation so there are some photo's in an album here;

Model Engineer Member Albums Warco Major MD30B

..tram looks good..

Edited By DiogenesII on 06/04/2023 17:09:14

Hi,DiogenesII,

Now i've got that sorted everything seem good in the world.

Just out of curiosity what would you expect to pay for this unit complete with base drill chuck, mill chuck and tilting vice? I'm not selling, Just curious.

£1265.

Ebay - Warco Major Milling / Drill Machine MD30B

Edited By DiogenesII on 06/04/2023 22:02:09

Oh wow.

So £450 is pretty good then? Lol

Hi Paul, I think you got your machine at a very nice price, and your tramming is very good and probably better than it was when first sold. The one in the link, is I think a bit over priced for its age, plus the fact that the original start/stop has been replaced with a domestic type of light switch, which isn't a good idea in my opinion, the price on it is almost what I paid for my brand new one just four years ago, and is two thirds the current price of a new one, but I guess someone will buy it.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 07/04/2023 08:14:45

Thanks Nick.

I am pretty new to all this and precision for me used to be "well if it looks straight then that will be good enough" The same if it looks the right shape and doesn't have to much play then job done! I never went to college or evening classes so I am just self teaching and getting a lot of advise especially from you guy's, So it is much appreciated. pretty much everything I have done in my life has been self taught from learning mechanics, Welding, Becoming an Mot tester i went through the hardest Way possible to gain the qualifications all done well into my 30's so late developer. Now I want to learn machining on both lathe and milling machines which i have decided to obtain... It's taken me this long to Justify to myself spending out on something I haven't got the slightest inkling of setting up let alone using, mainly so I can make parts for my bike from scratch not have to buy something costing hundreds of pounds only to find I have to modify the damn thing because it doesn't fit my bike or work how I wanted it to. So you might find I maybe asking a lot of stupid questions and you will think does he know anything?... so I apologise in advance to everyone.

Regards to all of you who have replied and have been reading .

Paul.

Nick's post sums up my thoughts pretty exactly..

A drill chuck is not the best holder for a tramming device, and a waste of money if the mill has no head tilting ability.

The only times that a drill chuck should be used in a Mill are to drill holes, align reamers or Taps, or for edge fdindeers, centering tools, or wigglers.

NEVER to hold End Mills or Slot Drills. Drill chucks are designed to take end loads, not the lateral ones imposed by milling cutters..

Collet chucks are the tool for milling cutters

Howard.

I only used it for the tramming.

I have got er32 collets that I use for the milling etc, but just though that the chuck would be easier to get the size of the shaft, and as there is no weight bearing to do this procedure can't see why it would make a lot of difference.