Interesting old chisels

I like the Oxford Works connection from 1877 but the logo and slogan are associated with 3 different makers, Hearnshaw, Wilson and Chapman.

All announcing they are made of cast steel, so it may be a quality-mark associated with the metal, not the tool. I wonder if it refers to Benjamin Huntley's process for making good steel cheaply, or to the later mid-Victorian process for forming large blocks of consistent composition free of blow-holes and other defects.

Could be a reference to a long forgotten event. There's a joke where the punchline is "I'm shy hairy melon, I'm shy", which only makes sense if you remember the song "I'm shy Mary Ellen I'm shy", which I've not heard for 50 years. Is it a coincidence the Boat Race in 1877 was a controversial draw? 'Oxford firmly believed that they had won the race by feet, but following a subsequent meeting in a law court with representatives of both universities and the umpire Chitty, the official result was declared as "Dead Heat", although contemporary accounts claim Phelps himself called it a "dead-heat to Oxford by 5 feet".'

May be saying that although the chisels look the same as the competition, they are actually better, a joke fully understood by Victorians but not us.

Dave

intersting thread.

There is a mention that the stump is still trying to grow. I have had some sucess from banging copper nails ( as used by boatbuliders) in tree stumps to stop further growth. I think the heavy metal poisons the remaining wood but I am not clear if it speeds up or hinders the rotting process.

Rod

Yet another 'maker' mentioned in this 1882 incident:

The following is a description of the burglar’s implements left behind by the assassin of the policeman Cole:- One 1-inch and a quarter bench chisel; maker’s name “Ellis, late Berry, Old-street, warranted,” On the reverse side a boat, “Oxford wins,” cast steel.

Now I'm thinking "Oxford Wins" Cast Steel blades were made wholesale with no makers name so they could be stamped up as theirs by any tool factor, not unlike the way Chinese Lathes are sold around the world with different paint jobs. My theory, the firms Ellis, Hearnshaw, Wilson and Chapman weren't manufacturers, they were retailers.

Dave

To speed up the rotting of the stump (unless you are keeping it as a flowerbed), bore plenty of holes in it of a decent size - 1 inch or larger - and fill them with a strong saltpetre solution.

No saltpetre? Pop round to your local bishop with a bucket

Rob

I discovered another gouge today while applying a bit of TLC to all my chisels & plane blades (a bit of damp got in over winter) and this time the wording is definitely "Oxford Wins". I like Dave's idea that it's the real maker's mark. Mine both have H. Wilson stamped on them but I didn't find anything on Grace's guide, which might make sense if Wilson was just re-badging the tools.

As for the tree, I like Rod's idea of using copper nails - I'd forgotten they poison trees. As it happen's a have an old waxed card icecream tub (Pacito's) full of copper nails. Fascinating what we hang on to. One day my son and daughter are going to have to sort it all out. Ho ho ho

Rob - it's tempting to track down the local bishop just to see what his reaction would be

Thanks all for the feedback

Chris

Dave, where did you find the references to Wilson and Chapman as also using the logo of 3 men in a boat, and what dates?
Everything I've found, and linked to in my previous post on Page 1 of this thread, suggests Hearnshaw were a maker of Edge Tools, amongst other things. There's at least 4 individuals involved, all with the same surname.

They don't appear to be listed in the 1879 Whites Directory as advertisers, but are shown at 50 Sorby St (Dorking St) on P 375 (of the pdf, P 360 of the directory itself)  as Edge Tool Manufacturers.
http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/digital/collection/p16445coll4/id/218326/

By 1911 in the Whites Directory, they only had John Bull listed as their trade mark. See P 21
http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/digital/collection/p16445coll4/id/83944/rec/1

Bill

Edited By peak4 on 02/05/2021 16:53:23

More 'makers': this Reynolds Razor described on ebay:

Measures approx. 6-1/8" long when folded and the thin blade measures approx. 7/16" wide...The tang is stamped, "Frederick Reynolds England" and the blade is engraved, "Extra Hollow Ground Razor Oxford Wins" with the image of a rowing crew team. The tang is marked Kratz Germany.

And an alleged Samuel Barnshaw Plane Iron, except I think its a Hearnshaw:

And a hint of other examples on dead ebay links:

The original post mentions Wilson, and peak4 found the Chapman and Sons.

Digging into this, ordinary internet searches do OR searches and produce lots of noise answers. I've had more success with tighter boolean search terms such as: "oxford wins" AND "cast steel" Lower case 'and' is ignored by search engines. However, capital AND is a logical command insisting both terms must be in the result. The AND filters out most of the rubbish. Another problem is false hits on auction sites were the item has gone or been replaced by something else.

Not sure what's going on with "Oxford Wins". Were Kranz in Germany selling razors made in Sheffield, or were Hearnshaw and others rebadging blades made in Germany? Not impossible "Oxford Wins" was a German Steel bought by Sheffield toolmakers because it was temporarily better value than the local product. Although Sheffield has a deservedly high reputation circa 1870 the best steel in the world was made in Germany. (In this period the UK, France, Germany, Belgium and USA leapfrogged each other repeatedly by improving quality and reducing prices.) Intriguing.

Dave

“OXFORD WINS” even features in the “Jack the Ripper” story: **LINK**

https://www.jack-the-ripper-tour.com/generalnews/the-murder-of-constable-cole/

MichaelG.

Here’s the win reported:

Oxford Wins Again. Londoh, April 13.—THfe 35th race between the Oxford and Cam bridge'crews took place this morning on the river Thames, over the usual course from Putney to Mortlake, a distance of four miles and two furlongs, and resulted in an easy victory for the Oxford crew, making 18 Victories for Oxford. Cambridge has been successful in 16 races. One race last year was a dead heat.

Ref. **LINK**

https://newspapers.library.in.gov/cgi-bin/indiana?a=d&d=INN18780413-01.1.1&e=-------en-20--1--txt-txIN-------

MichaelG.

Michael - that's an interesting possibility and puts the date at 1878. I wonder if the logo was just used for one year.

I used Dave's search method and found another quote from this link: **LINK**: " 1829 Oxford wins Britain’s first Boat Race, competiting with Cambridge. " (their typo, not mine)

I really don't believe these tools are 200 years old but winning the first such race would be worth commemorating.

It's also interesting that these tools seem to turn up all over the world - UK, USA, Canada, Russia and New Zealand. The murder of the policeman is also referred to in several countries.

Chris

For anyone unaware of “Cast Steel” a.k.a “Crucible Steel” ... here’s a useful note: **LINK**

https://toolmanblog.wordpress.com/2016/01/22/what-is-cast-steel/

MichaelG.

I still find it odd that the boat depicted is two rowers who have to have a pair of oars each whereas the oxbridge trad race has always been 8-oared. Wherry racing was popular that century and variations might well have allowed for a coxed 2 rower boat and perhaps nothing to do with the university - just as easily could be a local event with crews giving themselves names. Indeed I've been in a selection race where 'Mild' raced 'Bitter'

As for oxford wins.. I was in the right hand crew (40 secs in) :

https://youtu.be/JtutgIHB1Z4?t=40

pgk

Dave, Reynolds the razor maker were a Sheffield company making razors themselves; I actually used to live on a road off Gell St in the late '70s, though I suspect Providence Works (Variously, No.60 or 116/8, depending on the source) may have been demolished by then.
https://www.hawleysheffieldknives.com/n-fulldetails.php?val=rE&kel=1045

Note that on the blades of the razor(s) the logo of the boat and Oxford Wins appears to be etched, or engraved, rather than stamped. Also it seems that, rather than three rowers, it's actually a pair plus cox.
This was obviously done post grinding, so it seems unlikely that it was a logo on the steel blanks.

See Also
http://www.strazors.com/index.php?id=453&doc=frederick_reynolds_sheffield_

And Sheffield Museums; note the comment about the Cup and Saucer trade mark
http://collections.museums-sheffield.org.uk/view/people/asitem/items@null:9175/0?t:state:flow=6d46aabf-d636-4a3e-aea5-ae37edba9fbc#:~:text=Biographical%20Account%3A%20Frederick%20Reynolds%20was,during%20the%20Second%20World%20War.

Edited By peak4 on 02/05/2021 20:49:43

.

Possibly ‘artistic license’ ... rather like the hands of cartoon characters often only have four digits.

MichaelG.

**LINK**

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boat_Race_1829

Well done pgk.

I guess a logo that depicted the full rowing complement would have taken up the whole blade

I've had a thought since: the photo of the Kranz razor is from a US collection of antique razors sold by an auction site in California. Possibly it's a German imitation of a British Mark for selling razors to Americans in love with Sheffield steel.

In the 19th century the Boat Race was one of the world's best known sporting events. I suspect it stood for British values in a far more solid way than we associate with the modern race. We have lost contact with the brand's appeal just as cigarette brands like Capstan Full Strength and Senior Service lost impact as the Royal Navy reduced.

I wonder if there's a book about 19th century trade-marks?

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 02/05/2021 22:27:33