Member postings for Paul Kemp

Gents,

Need another clue here! I have stripped out the spindle this afternoon and removed the change wheel, thrust adjusting ring, bearing ring and its little peg, and all three races of the bearing, no problem. However I now can't get the pulley / gear assembly off the spindle. There seems to be a thick spacer ring that sits inside the counterbore of the pulley which isn't showing a lot of interest in coming off? I gave it a very gentle push under the press with the pulley supported on blocks and it might have moved 1/16" inch. If it's tight all the way I don't want it scraping over the bearing surface of the spindle! How did you get yours off? (Yes you are right, the gear is bronze, just covered in black oil!).

Thanks,

Paul.

Kwil / Alan,

Many thanks. Knew I had seen it somewhere in the near past! Spindle out later this week then and under the press with the pulley if need be! Doubt it's that tight though as at close of play I turned the chuck by hand and the motor / belts didn't move. You both mention a bronze gear, I maybe wrong if it's covered with grime but it looks like a cast one on mine. Will report back when I get it stripped down. I have plenty of various grades of loctite so hopefully not too much of an issue.

Thanks again,

Paul.

Gents,

My long suffering vintage S7 today lost speed at the chuck while again being rather unfair to it by facing a cast iron eccentric strap that only just clears the bed. To get under the skin I had to take a 30 thou cut which stalled the chuck. Investigating the drive is there all the way from the motor to the spindle three step pulley (no belt slip). The spindle pulley is slipping on the spindle. It hasn't lost drive altogether (yet) but it won't carry a decent cut without the chuck slowing down.

I seem to remember a recent thread which mentions this as a common problem? Have done a quick search but nothing relevant cropped up. So can anyone who has experienced this and fixed it give me some clues what you found and what you did to fix it?

Thanks,

Paul.

Bit difficult from pictures as they don't zoom clearly, looks vaguely Simplex like though.

Paul.

Peter,

Found this picture of the hand pump mounted as per Winson plans. This is my engine / pump but from a previous owner before I rebuilt it and put the pump inside the tender. I think the picture is a print from Station Road Steam info according to the info at the side of the page, it came to me as hard copy print with the engine so I hope there are no copyright issues!

Paul.

Peter,

I have found a picture! On the original you can zoom in and just see the JW but you can't read the number (it's actually 38 not 68 as I thought!). The number is just below the bottom row of stays, just above the foundation ring and just right of centre. I don't know if you will be able to zoom in and see it on the uploaded version.

As to a hand pump......... Yes I have one fitted, it is mounted within the water space of the tender under the coal space. I have an aluminium 'box' that sits in the coal space to hold coal with a rubber sheet glued to the underside of the box forming a seal against dirt falling into the water space through the slot for the pump handle. The bypass for the crank pump is routed to the same position so I can see if I wish too that the pump is operating. The hand pump is teed into the crank pump delivery pipe downstream of the bypass valve so to use it the bypass must be closed.

Is it any good? Well that's subjective! My opinion is it is only really useful for filling the boiler from cold or for pressure testing it. I have never been in the position where either the crank pump or the injector have both let me down but from the rate of delivery of the hand pump I would say it's worse than useless for normal running and only any good as a last resort get you home emergency measure! The pump itself I would say is original Winson as like most things they did it is carved out of a solid block! It's a tee shape if I remember correct probably an inch thick slab, milled down in places, about half inch bore and probably about 3/4" stroke. I will have another look another time and see if I have any pictures of it. You don't need a casting to make one though if you want to fit one, you could follow Winsons lead and mill from a solid block or silver solder fabricate. The Winson drawings I have show it bolted to the outside of the tender behind the LH rear wheel (dreadful idea if you want the engine to look reasonable!). I am now building a 6" engine and not bothering with a hand pump at all on that!

The 'tool tray' that sits on the back of the tender is another from solid abomination! No small wonder they went bust when many parts were machined from solid generating more swarf than actual metal left in the finished item! I may have the former I made to produce flanged side plates from 2mm steel sheet lying around somewhere to make the proper prototype tool box, if I can find it you are welcome to borrow it if you want to go the same route, I won't have the press tooling I used to bend the back sheet though, that would have been left in Trinidad where I made it!

Paul.

Peter,

From memory my boiler was stamped low down on the backhead just above the foundation ring. I think it is JW 68 so not a big number! Also just done in perhaps 4mm letter / number stamps so if it's been well painted you might have to look hard! If it's all assembled the stampings will be somewhere behind the rear axle if they are in the same spot. Are your tubes welded in? Not a great idea when it comes to a retube! I had bosses welded onto mine at the clack locations and sized them so an endoscope can be put through so an internal visual inspection can be done. Winson just drilled and tapped the barrel, it's thick enough but not really good practice.

Paul.

Peter,

I have one of those, rebuilt it from the bottom up, there were many issues with it, one howler was the crank has flats milled on it to locate the eccentrics, trouble is they were in the wrong place! You can find an account of the rebuild on Traction Talk if you are interested. Regarding the piston rings that is one thing I left alone and used as is. Was very tight to start with and as others say probably well OTT in terms of wall pressure but they soon ran in and it's done a lot of miles since. I have not opened it up to have a look recently but I took the front cover off after the first seasons running (2011 off the top of my head) and there was no indication of wear starting then. It's a good little engine, reasonable turn of speed without thrashing it. One common problem to look out for is the fit between liner and cylinder casting, some of the kits were dire and leaked. Only proper fix is bore out the cylinder and fit an oversize liner. Luckily this was one thing that was good on mine!

Paul.

Ron,

I don't post on here very often although I often read the various threads and get a little frustrated with all the pedantic comments and responses to various questions. I have to say though having followed your project, including getting the shed and buying a lathe very well done. When you consider the other thread on here re model engineering in decline to see someone like yourself come along and just get on with it is a breath of fresh air. More power to you you sir! The hobby needs more Rons! Well done, I think you are doing a cracking job.

Paul.

Ron,

I built an 040 with a single Sinclair C5 motor, tooth belt reduction to a countershaft and then chain drive reduction to both alxes. Controller was a DIY kit MOSFET controller as it was a budget project for the kids when money was tight. I used an old car battery from the family car that went to the scrap yard, never had any bother with it, used to pull the 3 older kids on a club driving car all afternoon on the club 720' raised track and later was used on a ground level portable track at fete's and pulled 4 kids plus a driver up and down 100' of track all afternoon, never went flat enough to stop operations. Maybe car batteries were better built 20 years ago! Since the kids grew up its not had much use, the last battery it had when the original car battery finally expired was a UPS battery I 'inherited' through work, never had a problem with that either. Yes I think the advise that traction batteries should be used is technically correct but for what we do I don't think they are essential. Even now I have an ex caravan battery that was superceded from its original duty running the winch in my trailer to pull the traction engine in and out, gets charged once a year and so far has never let me down, my dad used it for a couple of years or so and I have used it for 10 years since, no idea how old it actually is but when winching in it pulls a fair amperage dragging a 4" scale engine up thirty degree ramps.

Paul.

Duncan,

My 5" gauge 'Speedy' was fitted with O rings by the original builder, I have replaced them once due to one side wearing excessively, I didn't make any measurements, just replaced like for like (the originals were red in colour but no idea of the grade). The wear was apparently caused by all the oil from the lubricator going to one cylinder as the good one was 'wet' and the badly worn one 'dry' so at the same time I made a new twin element lubricator to feed each cylinder individually although the loco had run for about 30 years on the originals.

I made PTFE rings for my father's 2" Fowler ploughing engine when he broke one of the original cast iron rings. No science applied to that either! Made the rings about 5 thou narrower than the existing groove and about 50 thou larger on the bore than the piston register if I remember correctly (it was a few years ago now!). Then cut a strip of hard brass shim a free fit in the groove and crimped it to form a wavy spring. Popped the rings on over the top with about a 60 degree chamfer cut to get them over. Spring pushed them out on the bore. He ran it at rallies for three or four years and I ran it for another couple after and did a one mile 'road run' with it on a few occasions at one event. Ran fine. Not used it lately as it needs a trousers down boiler inspection and I can't get the enthusiasm to get the cladding off but assume it will still run as it did. There were no indications of any problem last time it was run.

Paul.

I think you are mixing up lead with lap for this question? Lead is the amount a valve will be open to steam when the piston is on dead centre. Ie lead introduces steam to the cylinder before the piston goes over centre, there are a number of reasons for this one being it provides a cushioning effect to the piston. Lead is determined mainly by the setting of the valve gear, in Stephenson's link motion this will be the angle of advance of the eccentric at full gear. Lap on the other hand is the amount the valve overlaps the outside edge of the steam ports. For example if the measurement across the outside edges of your steam ports is 12mm and you make the valve 15mm then it has 1.5mm lap (overlaps the outside edges of the ports by 1.5mm each end when the valve is set mid travel). Lap also needs to be considered when timing the valve gear. To get a real understanding of lap and lead you really need to study valve gear and the implications of valve events and the different types of valve gear available and the idea of variable or constant lead.

Paul.

Unfortunately irrespective of what 'customers' say or the perceived quality of the products, as the song says, it really is "all about the money" and that is unlikely to ever change.

There Is more choice now in what you can buy in terms of machinery and hand tools than say 30 years ago. In terms relative to wages over that period my perception is that it is now more affordable. When my father started to kit out his workshop 40 odd years ago it was a case of waiting until a good second hand opportunity arose on a myford lathe and fobco drill, buying new was out of the question. Ten or fifteen years later when I wanted to get some machinery at home my choices of new machines were Myford, Simat (remember them?) Peatol, Cowels or a new player Hobbymat from Eastern Europe, I went with the latter on grounds of capacity and included accessories for the price and have never regretted it.

That choice however has only become available because business has become more global, opening up the opportunities of reduced manufacturing costs in developing countries. How much of what we buy (machinery and tooling) has been manufactured in Britain / The EU? As Ketan points out the world is a constantly changing place and legislation in developing countries is increasing which will only drive up costs. Alongside this is the Internet market place opening up the UK customer base to sellers with minimal overheads. UK companies with all their associated business costs are now having to compete on a less than level playing field. Good for the consumer? Probably in the short term as it keeps the market keen, longer term though we are likely to lose the traditional dealers with a showroom, the ability to go and look and feel before you buy and after sales support. Already in recent years there has been a decline in such traders attending exhibitions and giving their wares greater exposure to the customer, understandable when you consider the costs involved in attending, exhibition charges, transport, accommodation, wages etc.

Like any market, selling tools and machinery to the amateur home user the key perhaps is customer expectation and available disposable income. Time and time again we see on this forum statements such as buy cheap, buy twice - not always the whole truth in a hobby environment where you are buying something for a specific job or something that will be little used, granted not really applicable to a lathe or mill but very relevant to some accessories and consumables. There also seems to be a quest for extreme precision, is that really necessary for perhaps 80% of the projects undertaken? Laudable and good to strive for accuracy but within limits surely. A recent question posed on here is a good example, reaming a few thou out of a bearing bush for a 5" gauge loco - some responses regarding accuracy of the finished hole were astounding considering its purpose! Something that seems rarely considered is fitness for intended purpose - the intended purpose bit applies not only to the manufacturer perception but also the customer ie not only has it been manufactured to a reasonable standard according to the manufacturer's intention of its use but has the customer considered is it good enough for what I want to achieve?

Perhaps a better way to look at all this is from the statement "Quality Costs" as you don't neccesarily "get what you pay for" certainly if you want a high precision bit of kit it will cost, but sadly just because you pay a lot of money doesn't gaurantee high precision! It's all about perception of value for money. If you get a good bit of kit for a few pounds that does what you need, that's a bonus. If you need high precision and pay for it and are happy that's fine too. Is it REALISTIC though to expect accuracy to tenths of thou from a lathe or mill that costs under £1000?

Last week I recieved an email from a commercial company asking if I could help by making a fairly simple aluminium block to replace one that had been lost or damaged. I don't do commercial work but in this case said yes, I could make one. This particular component looked like it was die cast and in a mass production situation sold through a retailer would probably cost £2 - £3. Because it was a commercial company that would obviously be passing the cost on and not a personal friend and because my time is valuable to me in building my own traction engine I had a quick think about how long it would take to make, machining all over to size, drilling 4 holes, tapping two (thread unspecified) counter boring one (fit unspecified) and decided it would take a couple of hours by the time the machine was set up, tooling selected and the operations carried out. I would need to buy in a piece of material so I gave them a price of between £50 and £60. Funnily enough there has been no reply!

Next time you buy a cheap piece of equipment if it does what you need, be thankful you got a bargain, if it's useless be remorseful and put it down to experience but remember if you only buy on line you are contributing to the decline of traditional businesses that allow you to touch and see the goods before purchase and sooner or later they will disappear leaving you to seek out your own source of supply through faceless and unaccountable 'virtual' overseas suppliers with less certainty of getting what you want. Bottom line is we as customers all want perfection for less, suppliers all want (in fact NEED) to make a profit so it's all about the money.

Paul.

Simon,

From the picture posted by Brian G I assume you are referring to the fittings along the side of the boiler at the level of the firebox crown? Normal convention of description is hand holes I believe for these. Mud hole tends to be the description of the oval doors below the normal water line, hand holes for the similar feature above the normal water line and wash out plugs are as I stated previously normally a square headed tapered threaded plug, typically less than 2" diameter.

I believe the hand holes to which you refer are oval doors in the boiler but rather than the conventional straight door bridge they have a circular 'cover' that bears on the boiler and the small nut in the centre is on the stud fixed to the door. As the nut is tightend the door is drawn onto its sealing face, just like a conventional mud hole door with a bridge but in this case the bridge is replaced by the circular cover. I would think but can't be certain having never fitted a door of this type that the two 'pin' holes in the cover are to allow any leakage to show outside the cover.

Of course none of the above answers your question as to how big they are! Maybe email or call the NRM in the UK and ask if they have a boiler drawing in their archives that gives the detail?

Paul.

Hmm that's a bit harsh? I have no idea on the answer to your question, as I suspect from the lack of response do most others. I have never been on or up close and personal with a B1. From Loco's I have been on or involved with I believe there are standard sizes for wash out plugs and they are usually tapered threads, So I suspect the outer raised flange could be the bush that it screws into but from the ones I have seen up close and personal 5 or 6" sounds a bit large. The hole in the lagging with its flanged edge may well be that size though. Maybe you can do a search for an old relevant standard which might give you a clue. Outside of that I can't help I am afraid.

Paul.

John,

Many thanks for your info / advise. I had a look today and pd072 on both units was set at 400, must have been like that since the factory as I haven't adjusted them. I set them to 120 initially, great improvement but it still seemed the pot only used about 80% of its movement to adjust. So I decided to try 50, now works over full range on both units.

Paul.

John,

Many thanks for that, I knew I had seen it somewhere but couldn't remember exactly where! I have just had a re read and checked against what I wrote in the book when I set them up. If everything is as I recorded it the only differences are pd072 which is set at 50 (as it came) and pd005 also set at 50 (assumed that was correct as 50hz motor). I will have a play Saturday when I am next at the machine and see how I get on! Not being particularly electrically orientated and not being confident of chinglish manuals I was just happy to get the machine going!

Thanks again, will report back.

Paul.

Gents,

I am sure there will be someone with an answer to my question on here, please?

I have two Huanyang 2.2kw (I think they are from memory) VFD's running my Elliott Omnimill and they so far have done exactly what I want, run the three phase motors from single phase. Up till now I have never bothered with the variable speed function as the machine has a good range of speeds within its own gearing on both spindles. However I have now come across a need to use the VFD to vary the speed. However the units own speed pot only seems to adjust the frequency over about 1/3 of its total travel making it very touchy to get the desired speed. Both units are the same. When I set them up I only adjusted the parameters required to match the motors. I am pretty sure though that I must have a parameter wrong somewhere.

There was a fellow with a similar problem recently but the pot in question was a remote pendant mounted unit. Can anyone please point me in the direction of the parameter(s) that may need adjusting to make the built in pot work over its full range?

Thanks,

Paul.

More riveting than sheep...........

Paul.

Neil,

Good advise and it was a similar post by yourself that put some of the misconceptions to bed in the previous thread I have in mind.

Maybe just to reinforce what you say though, I think it is the perception of brazed tip tools that is the root of many of the adverse comments. That being that the expectation is all brazed tip tools are akin to ready to use inserts where in reality dependant on supplier and price they are no different to an HSS blank. Maybe people associate the word carbide with pre ground ready to plug and play inserts and expect a brazed tip to be the same? You wouldn't put an HSS blank in the tool post and expect to turn with it without grinding it first. In my experience most brazed tips are nothing more than a carbide blank to be treated to same as an HSS blank. Granted some do come pre ground but as you rightly point out and your picture is a great example of, not all. It certainly doesn't mean the tool itself is 'no good', just not ready for use without grinding!

Only other comment is the 'groove' on the pre ground HSS tool is only a chip breaker which makes life a bit simpler perhaps in managing the swarf but it's not essential to the cutting action.

I'll get my hat now!

Paul.