Member postings for KMP

Hi, the change gears are the same as the Myford 7 series ones and RDG charge £10 for the smaller ones up to 39 teeth and £12 (this including VAT I think) for the larger ones you need. Although pattern ones those I have (metric change set) run very well and have given no problems. If you look at Myfords own page their smaller ones are £9 (without VAT which from your 10$ you may not have to pay). Larger ones quickly get much more expensive though. Obviously postage would add to this cost but still not too bad if you want a few at a time.

As mentioned above E-Bay might be a source but depending on location and your luck can be quite expensive these days for a full set. Sets of 12 seem fairly common round the £100 mark as Mike says but would still need extra ones for your fine feed set. In the past I collected many from various Model Engineering Shows and car boot sales but now everyone knows (or thinks they know) that anything Myford is worth a good part of the earth. Just look at the prices paid for Myford stands to see what I mean. Not any help I know but my first new Myford Speed 10 longbed cost less than many are asking for the industrial stand (OK it was 1984 - wish I had bought a few), excellent lathe I used for at least 20 years. I'm sure you will enjoy yours.

Keith

Hi David T, I had my S7 mounted on one of the much cheaper MM benches for over 10 years without too many problems but recently changed it for a home made bench (see my photo album) as the top had started to bow. I would have to say that these stands are not made from thick enough steel really and are prone to be noisy and easily damaged. If you have any vibration they will rattle and the drawers open (or are prone to) with interrupted cuts etc. As standard the top will require some stabilisation if it is not to bow over time. I had a good look at the stand you linked to but decided at that price I could do much better myself. Luckily I had an unused roll cabinet and incorporated that for drawer space, it works really well. It was not however a cheap option. In the past I have used angle iron/Dexion benches with every success and would not hesitate to build another if required, but as I have the welding equipment I felt I should use it, adjustable feet are easily fabricated from 12mm or so round head coach bolts/nuts and a suitable mounting plate on the stand. The top if well supported can be anything you have really but I used two layers of 18mm ply again with every success. I did however, use the Myford adjustable raising blocks (or my version of them) and after regular checking found that things were very stable and rarely needed adjustment.

I'm sure you can produce something very suitable and leave a good deal for some extra tooling which is always useful.

Regards Keith

I believe we have all been through this dilemma but rejecting a lathe because of the colour would be a new one on me. Particularly as Warco are one of the better companies to deal with and have always provided me with good, keenly priced and very usable equipment. Anyway, Dave has made some excellent points but I can't see where anyone has addressed Gary's questions about likely life span etc.

To put these machines into perspective (M300, Student) they certainly were aimed initially at the education and maintenance worlds although widely used elsewhere in industry by smaller companies. Having been involved with a major machine jobbing shop and training facility the Student was standard fodder in our training facility (35 lathes various models), it proved to be resilient and accurate over the 20 years I was involved and we only scrapped one due to a cracked headstock casting where one "student" decided to select top speed without the operators knowledge and another thought it would be good fun to distract the guy during the cut?? Most maintenance was normal wear and tear, Headstock bearings were superb (in their class) and bed ways were OK but would dent if components were dropped on them. Blending out damage was a standard practise. We had a couple of Colchesters in the main workshop but they got very little use and weren't popular with our turners.

The Harrisons were mainly used in our maintenance department and proved extremely reliable and accurate, the couple in our main shop were always chosen over the similar sized Students for some reason. I haven't any particular memories of failure but we did suffer a couple of gearbox failures which were a fiddle to fix. The accountants didn't like them as at the time we got a better deal on the Colchesters.

Neither of these two types figured in our tool room as they lacked the accuracy that a aerospace facility required over time. The only M300 in the tool room was for the apprentices all of whom worked hard to graduate to the CVAs, Monarchs and Schaublin's that "the men" used.

In my opinion, for the hobby user they are an excellent but expensive choice. The name they have acquired and the cost of parts and accessories if available are the cause of this. A difficult choice to recommend for any "first timer" when secondhand as they can be fairly lightweight when abused and worked hard, and no matter what anyone says many have gone from training to small production companies and are now well worn. I have seen them in well respected tool dealers that I certainly wouldn't buy both for price and condition. Obviously, if I could find a well equipped, well looked after example for a fair price I would recommend to anyone in our hobby. For my own personal use I find them heavy and insensitive (particularly the Student early models) and not that flexible when the cost of accessories is included.

My go to recommendation for first time buyers is, any lathe is better than nothing, most learning is done by using the machine and understanding what it can do well, Excellent work can be produced on a fairly worn lathe if you understand how to compensate for the wear. A medium sized Chinese lathe (say a Warco WM280V) is ideal for most things we do and perhaps not surprising these days holds value well. For £2K with at least 60% return if you look after it. It will need proper "setting up" but in the hobby workshop will easily give at least 10-15 years service. I have just sold a Warco BH600 built in 2000, working and looking as good as new and sold for what I bought it for.

Hope you find what you are looking for but honestly, don't worry about the colour.

Keith

A few moons ago working as an apprentice on a HS 748 I dropped a spanner into an area that required a skin to be lifted for removal. When detailed to do it the following day I had to explain that I was at college and wouldn't be able to. When I returned from my day of study (?) I was thrown a spanner by the supervisor who started telling me my life story. I had to interrupt him to explain that it wasn't my spanner as it was a Snap On and mine was a King Dick, when he came down off the hangar roof I was handed an air drill and a requisition for some heat treated rivets. didn't have to ask what the job was, when I lifted the skin there was my spanner a foot or two away and partly hidden. Have no idea how long the other one had been there but I was rather put out as I wasn't allowed to keep the Snap On.

Keith

I​ have just been through the same process for my S7 and after several failed attempts at buying an original stand I choose to make my own. The main reason was that when I tried a friends machine on a stand it was too low for comfortable use and the amount of storage space available was more limited than I expected.

I built mine to the same footprint as the Myford stand but with square ends and a couple of inches higher, for the type of storage I needed I incorporated a Clarke Roll Cabinet with suitable drawers. The stand is made from 50x25x3mm box section with 2mm sheet sides and shelves with 50x50x5mm for the top frame and lathe mounting positions. While it was straight forward to make I can't recommend it as an economy move as the steel cost £120+ and of course the cabinet if I hadn't had it spare.

Not sure if the photo will display as I haven't posted here for a few years

Keith

I'm getting a bit worried now as I see a few posts that elude to some reality in past buying experiences, have your rose tinted specs failed? (perhaps they were Chinese as well). We really do need to recognise that the modern buying experience is countless times better than when I started to collect workshop equipment nearly 50 years ago now.

The prices we pay for very reasonable machines is ridiculously cheap and the choice we have (at affordable hobby prices) is fantastic. Delivery, well, by 1960/70 standards would really best be described as almost instant. To top it all off, if you have the money they will sell you what you need - this has not always been the case back in the "heyday".

Just a couple of examples from a long career in aerospace where I was involved with equipment purchases for some large facilities and for myself.

Ordered my first Myford ML7 in 1969 from a well known (at the time) tool supplier, you weren't allowed to speak to the company themselves in those days they just referred you to one of their stockists. I was quoted list price of course which didn't include a motor, stand, steadies or chucks or any other niceties for that matter. The best they could guess was between 4-6 months but I would be put on the waiting list and get one as long as there wasn't any major education or training orders to move me back a bit. I went and bought an old Atlas and struggled with that.

Most of the bits and pieces, drills, taps, cutting tools, DTIs etc, etc had to be found second hand or saved for and then treasured. Graham Engineering in West Brom got most of my money as many large engineering companies were closing down at the time and they had huge selection and very reasonable prices. It was also good entertainment as they had a selection of the early Taiwanese offerings that we could laugh at.

My second attempt was in 1984, a little bit better but by then I couldn't afford an ML7 so had to settle for an ML10. Again no equipment whatsoever although it did come with a motor and a choice of either a 3 or 4 jaw chuck. The price in todays pounds would be well over £1500. The same price as a fully equipped, variable speed and power cross feed 1022 type lathe.

A little later and on the industrial front, I was involved in the purchase of a "state of the art" 5 axis, long bed vertical machining centre. The change would have bought a few cups of coffee out of £1m. Delivery was 7 months late and in 15 years it averaged less than 80 hours a month in reliable running. All this from a very well known European company. Within 10 years we were buying 3 axis Mazaks for less than £40K, delivery and installation invariably on the day required and they ran 80-100 hours a week with very, very few failures and accuracies we could only previously dream of.

Like everyone I suspect I am very careful where I spend my hard earned money and am as demanding as most but, we really do need to recognise how lucky we are at the moment when it comes to home use engineering equipment. Yes there are many dubious merchants on the internet and beyond mainly in the cheap DIY market but with our Model Engineering Suppliers - at least the better regarded ones we really are well served and long may it last.

Heading for the bunker with my cheap Chinese hard hat.

Keith

As mentioned before, one of the best companies I've ever dealt with but it does sound as if they are a bit distracted at the moment. Not too surprising if they are stocktaking post Harrogate. If you feel unhappy and need to sort things out ask to talk to Roger Warren, he will be very, very busy but has always sorted things out for everyone I've spoken to.

You might be unlucky on this occasion but you have chosen one of the very best companies to buy from, so stick with it would be my advice.

Good luck

Keith

Hi Otley,

From my experience it is as you suggest caused by a variable stiffness in the standard drive belt so that the spindle accelerates and decelerates a small amount but enough to clatter within the half moon cutout. While I stopped it temporarily by shimming the pin, the problem on my S7 was completely cured by a change to a T-Link type belt. A new standard belt from Myford (original company) made no difference at all. I might have done something similar to Nobby if I had thought of it. I found that not all Link types belts are equal but the more expensive T-Link worked for me and is still working after a number of years use.

Regards Keith

Sorry Adam, forgot to answer your question. No not that tight really when they are locked together with a steady pull which overcomes the drag on the locking collar you will feel the bearings come together having taken up all the free play in the bearings. A sharp wrap with the mallet will tighten a further 1 - 2 serrations on the C rings. Don't do what I did once and break the C spanner.

Keith

Adam

Send me a message with your e-mail and I will send you a present in PDF format.

Adam

Myford produced a Service Call Sheet which detailed the replacement of the spindle drive belt including the adjustment of the main spindle bearing. I'm not sure if the new Myford company still have them they were a couple of pounds if my memory is correct.

Basically you adjust the inside collar until you feel some drag on the spindle taper bearing and then tighten the outside collar until it locks and then give it a "sharp wrap" with a mallet. Yes it is that technical. From memory it takes a few attemps to get it just right. One must back off the adjustment collars and tap the spindle to release and start again should the spindle tighten as you lock the collars up. Run the machine to ensure that the front bearing is not heating up.

Hope this helps a little.

Keith

I can't comment on Amadeal as I have only bought one small item from them, I have bought from the other two and I personally always look first at the Warco deal. They have always treated me very fairly and sorted out the two very minor issues I had instantly. They are at most of the shows and I have always found Roger to be approachable, very friendly and willing to help if he can. To be honest the machines I bought from Chester were very reasonable as well although I found their delivery to be expensive. I have, in general found them less approachable and to an extent less sympathetic to my amateur needs. Just my perception and I probably spoke to the wrong guy at the time.

Keith

Yes, as I said several importers have stopped listing these lathes but my reference to the BH600 was to give you an idea of what the machine was like irrespective of the name on it or paint scheme; in reality they are all remarkably similar. Toolco still list it as a 1224 but I see they are out of stock.

To go back to your original question I'm not sure if you are wanting a "new" lathe or if a secondhand one would be considered. This always brings the dilemma of comparing the cost of new/used and trying to get the best value for your money - at least it will if you are tight like I am. Over the years I have bought both new and used and had good and bad experiences with both. While many are keen to extol the virtues of used the truth is you have to be both lucky to find a really good one and also able to tell if it really is the "almost unused one" they invariably claim. Of course with a new import many will tell you that it will need a complete strip and rebuild to be usable. In my experience that is less of an issue nowadays but I would personally always buy from an importer that had good after sales support even if it was not the cheapest on offer.

Looking at some of the machines suggested I have experience of and still own/use a few of them, I have a Boxford AUD which is very popular with bike/car restorers for some very good reasons. It is a compact, sturdy, accurate and reliable machine that is widely available and relatively cheap for the quality it provides. But, as there always is a but, you have to find one that has not been worn out or "refurbished" with a paint brush. It took me several years to find the long bed one I have and had me looking at a number of machines that were well past their sell by date. To be honest I don't use it a lot these days but will not sell it as I could not match the quality it provides at many times what it would fetch.

The Craftsman type machine I have described and again don't see anything available new that would be an improvement without spending a lot more money than I could realize from selling it.

The one I did sell,was a Harrison M300, first class machine when new but the one I got had a number of gearbox and bearing problems that were unbelievably expensive to correct or would mean that I would have had to spend lots of time looking for bargain parts to surface.

My most used lathe is a Myford S7 and it is the lathe I load work onto if at all possible. I guess I'm saying that there are as many "best" lathes as there are lathe owners. What is important is you identify what is critical to you and ensure that any lathe you buy will do the task you need it to. Some of the newer import lathes are very well equipped, very versatile and while not built like Rolls Royces are well able to be used accurately for a reasonable period of time.

I don't mean to confuse the issue but to encourage you to identify what you need from a machine, have a good look at some of the possibilities and if possible have a play with them and see what they feel like to use and if things appear to be in sensible places. If I were to start again I think 95% of what I do would be covered by the WM280V-F type lathe that has been mentioned by several people. It would also cost much less than the collection of lathes I currently have.

Keith

Hi, the issue is with the two speed pulley from the motor to the countershaft. The motor hangs underneath and to the back of the machine. The motor is positioned by the usual link and adjusting screw to tension the belt. To change from Hi to Lo range the motor has to be lifted to provide clearance for the belt to move from one groove in the pulley to the other, if you have access to the back of the machine and a good back a fairly simple task; but who has either of those? The common method is to remove the link and let the motor hang on the belt with tension relying on the weight (not usually a problem) and then using a length of strapping the belt can be persuaded across the pulley from the top. Without the bit of strapping it can be a finger pincher. Not an insurmountable problem but a hassle if speed changes are regular.

There is a very good review on the Warco BH600G (Warco's version of the Craftsman) written by Graham Howe which can be found here:

**LINK**

Well worth a read if you are contemplating one.

Regards

Keith

Petro1head Hi,

The Craftsman type lathe was sold widely and was very popular for many years. Have a look for the Warco BH600G, or any 1224 variant (the GH1224 or 1236 was the gear head). It is a very solid and reliable machine which is well equipped when supplied new, for many years sold for about £1500. It came in either 24 or 36" between centres with or without a gap bed, in the early days several people reported difficulties with refitting the gap piece after removal but this could have been refitting technique but nevertheless lead to many not ever removing the gap piece. While the belt drive is simple and very reliable the 2hp motor needs lifting a little to change speed and is very heavy so many were converted to 3ph and variable speed. The top spindle speed at 1200rpm is also a limitation if you are going to use it for smaller items and tipped tooling. I have had the Warco non gap version for about 10 years but find it big and heavy to use with chucks etc getting more difficult to change as I get older. It has therefore had almost no use in that time. The machine is also heavy and takes a bit of moving, I move mine with an engine crane.

I mention the above in part to explain why more modern replacements have electronic variable speed drives and a few more "bells and whistles". These can also lead to reliability issues as the machines get older and there are sometimes issues with the cost and availability of the electronics, modern machines might be much better in this respect though.

So, good solid, simple and reliable machine of the old school. It was hard to beat in its day but the price rise and improved competition have lead to many suppliers dropping the model.

Best regards

Keith

Alan

Have had problems with BT but now fixed so if you would like a copy of the rough guide please send me PM with an email address.

The "string" method is well known and works for some, we always found that it was extremely sensitive to the speed of pull particularly when setting very lightly loaded bearings with minimal drag. We felt it was very prone to applying excessive pre-load and very easy to adjust your speed (subconsciously) to get the reading necessary. A simple pulley with a known weight to provide the pull was supposedly more consistent.

Neil

Right hand pull for imperial and left hand for metric, unless of course you are left handed then it's all reversed again. The real problem is mixing metric and imperial string as the effective radius of the pull is changed

Regards

Keith

Alan

I wrote the guide mentioned in the reference given in Michaels’ post and will send you a copy if it would help.

Taper bearing adjustment is somewhat subjective unless you can very accurately measure the torque on the shaft. It is also affected by many factors as have already been mentioned and will require some running checks and subsequent adjustment after initial fit and setup. With a little trial and error however it is fairly easily achieved and will result in bearings that last many years. The Gamet bearings in the Bantam are superb but very expensive; unfortunately trouble is not that unusual if it has been run for years without proper adjustment. If yours is fitted with the originals I would inspect them closely to ensure that replacement is necessary as changing for new cheaper bearings may not improve the situation. Main issue when adjusting is the inner race sticking on the spindle which makes the fine adjustment difficult.

Let me know if a copy of my rough (very) guide will help and I will send you a copy.

Best regards

Keith

Rob, Andy

Thanks for the comments, I also agree that the jaws should be reversible but the shape of the jaw outer ends look square to me rather than tapered to grip when reversed. It looks as if the jaws will not completely centre when reversed and the cowells doesn't have a lot of clearance for jaws that stick out beyond the chuck body. OK if I can keep it within the gap but could be a problem if the chuck or my adaptor is a little long.

Terry, all good comments but I can't agree with not checking and removing the burrs if present or indeed breaking corners if they have been left sharp.. Both faults are quite prevalent on some of the cheaper items available these days and apart from causing tightness and possible jamming, they are very good at giving a false impression of a "good fit". Unfortunately, when production times are tight removal of them is often the first thing "forgotten".

I wouldn't advocate removal of metal from any mating faces and always use a touch of engineers blue to identify the "tight" areas, surprising how often I find them to be in the corners of the jaw slides or even on one chuck from burrs left by cutting the idicator rings in the front face.

I am not complaining as I enjoy the very reasonable prices we can get usable tooling for these days with just the simplist of remedial attention.

Best regards

Keith

Rob Hi,

I agree with Andy and have had to clean and remove burrs on several new chucks in the past and not all "cheap" ones either. You will be able to decide if it is the jaws not sliding or the screws not turning by removing the jaws (mark them first), remove the adjuster and slide the jaw back into the slot. I have found both issues and a simple de-burr with a stone or diamond file has worked for me.

I have found swarf trapped between thread and chuck body as well as between thread and jaw rack (not Chinese either) but unlikely if all 4 jaws are tight. I have also found with one import chuck that the adjustment screws were full form threads (?) and as the slots were a very nice fit the crests were fouling the jaw rack, a quick clean up of the adjuster thread outer diameter with a bit of emery in the lathe fixed that one.

I am not a supporter of grease on chuck threads as it will attract all sorts of swarf and lead to many similar problems when in use. A good clean/de-burr followed by a quick wipe with a trace of good machine oil keeps my chucks fine.

I am thinking of getting one of these independent 4 jaws for my Cowells but will need to re-machine the thread register as mine is the older 14x1.5mm type. Are the jaws reversible? I can't see from the picture on their site.

Best regards

Keith

Chris Hi, glad you are now sorted. I was in the middle of writing my very limited experience of them for you so might as well post it as others may be interested.

I can’t answer your actual question as I haven’t bought a machine from Toolco although I have bought smaller items in the past and all was fine. I have visited their showroom in Stroud particularly to view one of their larger mills and compare with two of the other importers who offer similar machines. I found them friendly and very helpful in answering my questions and making access for me to see what I wanted (they had just received a delivery). The machines I saw appeared well finished, well equipped, and were clean and well presented. To be honest they were typical of modern imports and not nearly as shoddy as some would have you believe. I wasn’t rushed or “guided” in any way, which I prefer and the coffee was fine. I thought they looked a professional outfit and given the right deal would have no issue with buying from them.

So, why didn’t I buy from them? Well, in my opinion, their delivery charge seemed expensive. Although it was in line with one of their competitors, another includes delivery charges in the published price. Toolco were firm on the price to me and didn’t appear interested in sweetening the deal with any “free” accessories or discounts. This might be their policy or may have been because they only had one of these machines in stock. Either way, two of their major competitors offered a better deal on a similar machine so I moved on.

In the end I bought a much better spec machine from Warco (from a cancelled order so was on a special deal) and enjoyed a few extra small items that were included as I asked nicely. The delivery service was excellent and the driver put the machine crate where I needed it. They had included the wrong DRO readout and they corrected that within a couple of days at no cost to me. The machine is working well and I can’t fault the service I have received, so much so, that I have bought quite a few extra accessories from them at the last couple of exhibitions. Obviously others experience may differ but I can only report on what I have found.

Hope you enjoy your new lathe

Regards

Keith