Member postings for Ajohnw

You can keep an eye out on homeworlshop.org and the for sale section of lathes.co.uk. The last one can be an expensive option but not always.

When I am looking for a lathe I don't have any loyalty really. What turns me on is condition, the kit I need coming with it, swing etc and in my case bench mounting. As it turned out I went from a myford ml7 that turned into a super 7 but still had things needed doing - bed regrind, to a Boxford ME10, the bench mount version of their lathe with all I could want really with it and in unusually good condition as far as wear is concerned. It could have been anything really providing the headstock bearings could be changed. I didn't want to have to sort out either super or ml 7 bearings again. They are ok when done and do last but it's hassle I can do without.

I bought the boxford blind but did ask the seller how much taper it turned over 6". He reckoned 0.002" on unsupported 1" bar as he had nothing bigger. Turned out that the bearings were a bit loose. Good that he replied though. Many think if the chuck goes round all is ok.

I much prefer to go and look carefully. Distance doesn't both me much more the time to get there. Depends really but an hour to an hour and half is fine by me. Longer if highly desirable. I might ask the wife if she fancies a look around and a meal where ever it is too at times.

When I had a floor standing lathe it was a Raglan. The square headed one. That sort of thing needs a machine tool mover really or hire a small car transporter with a winch or what ever.I looked at all sorts including a number of makes of gearhead that some would say yes yes too. I couldn't find one in decent condition. All of them were really well used. Also some boxfords in a similar state. Maybe because they generally really do get used in B'ham. From the swarf hidden away in it the Raglan had probably only been used by pipe fitters in some factory some where. Ex workshop lathes can be good. Toolrooms tend to keep them until they are no use at all to them. Companies do go bust though.

It can be worth asking about on local industrial estates for medium sized and up stuff. If they sell to dealers they don't get much so some one might sell one before it's had it.

I suspect the biggest problem with your current lathe is probably weight and design. Maybe wear as well. Chinese lathes do seem to have improved.

John

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That's why I am going to ask locally Ray. There has been mention of BOC offering a special deal for amateurs so will enquire but given the amount of use and also convenience I may choose the none rental option. There is a motor factor local that seems to be an agent and also a very helpful hire shop that may do something on the same lines or could. I've been known to buy trend router cutters off him as he is so helpful. Once he found out about his discount he said please come back again. He gave me a decent discount too.

John

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The replacement tig torcj from cromwell proved to be a bad idea - no handle with it and the only seller on ebay who sells handles fit for many torches must be joking. I may have a use for that eventually though.

So now I have a spare torch head. I bought a complete one off amazon. Chinese seller with some stock in europe. Name something like Riverweld. They are in ebay too. Unlike the cromwell one it has a nice slippery cap on top of the torch for the o-ring on the cap to slide in. That part is silicone rubber on the cromwell one and the o-ring can roll off, get twisted, rolled over etc. The one that came with it is better but had the problem of only being able to get consumables from china.

I bought the spares of Riverweld too. Not sure on this but it was the only set that offered what I think is a sensible range of collet sizes. One 1mm, One 4mm and several 2.4 and 3.2mm ones. There isn't much info about on this subject other than how much current can be put through the different sizes. One advice on here some where is treat yourself to some 2.4mm. When I have seen tig being used I've never seen anyone change the electrodes size only the current - way down in some cases. So my guess is that 2.4 and 3.2 are the sizes to have and tip angles etc may need playing with according to some. 4mm might come in useful for some ones idea of how to go about welding aluminium with a DC welder. Yes before some one says can't be done. I am aware of that.

As mentioned when I was trying to get info on air fittings 'cause that is needed for an easy change over from tig to cutting I've decided to use euro. Cost including adding a drier and output gauge to the compressor is about £60 but that's for mostly steel fittings. Given use and where the stuff will be kept I'm going to change that to brass. While nickel plating doesn't corrode what's under does if any wears off. I think the couplers will be cheaper but oddly some of the fittings are more expensive.

Shortly I may have time to get out and see what gas bottles can be sourced very locally Then I'll phone BOC.

John

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If you do go for the ML10 I would be inclined to look for one that has taper roller bearings. The problem with the earlier ones is that past some point it's very difficult to do anything with the plain running in cast iron ones. There are pictures of the 2 types on lathe co uk. The difference is easy to spot. It's a big plus against all of Myford's other lathes. They can be changes easily - if needed and aren't that bad to adjust.

Hopper made a good point though - check carefully. I would go look and take tools with me to tighten up the slides if they are rather loose so I could get a true idea of wear. Particularly the saddle. I've looked at several of the later models over the years and generally they have all been in pretty good condition - even well adjusted usually. In fact I would say often hardly used. Getting things like fixed steadies for them can be rather difficult to find. Something to bear in mind if you need one you might have to make it. The change wheel gear set contains a fair few gears too. They can be found but a better option is a lathe with them.

The roller bearing model is essentially a speed 10 without the higher speeds. A mod or an inverter and 3 phase motor could fix that aspect.

Not sure it's right to knock Opti based on Brian's lathe that Hopper sorted out. Following that it's seems to have done some pretty decent work. He wants bigger now though and was probably advised to go bigger when he bought the baby lathe. 'hit probably happens on all makes at times.There do seem to be some happy owners and they can be seen being used on youtube. They cost more for less though but the gain is the claim that they use hardened bearings and in one case an aged bed. I assume that is still in the catalogue. All lathe manufacturers used to leave beds etc lying around to stress relieve them. Not sure if Opti leave 'em long enough but at least they know about the problem. Worth it over say Warco? I don't know and the fact that a German outfit is involved doesn't mean much really.

John

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Having worked for Lucas it's pretty certain that a wiper motor will be rather robust. Far more so than window winder motors or seat adjustment ones. Not that there is bound to be problems when those are used. Very modern stuff may be a bit different thanks to electronics.

If it can be run at various speeds I'd be inclined to use the fastest one and gear down if needed but just try pulse width modulation initially. 40 amp is probably a sensible size for the modulator but if in doubt it might be a good idea to measure the stall current.

It's possible to find ones for 24v as well. Often expensive as they are mostly used on artics but these can also be cheap. I'm hoping one will do for a power lift on the head of my Dore Westbury - when I can get at it and have the time. There is also a very watty 24v switch mode supply to go with it. Part reason for 24v is maybe making use of cnc at some point. Just on the off chance that I do.

John

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There are lots of fish in the ocean. When I buy a machine I don't rush and bear in mind what equipment I want with it. That last bit sets when I buy as it's possible to spend a lot and or wait a long time to get the extras that are usually needed. For me that's decent 3 and 4 jaw and a fixed steady and hopefully a face plate and a qctp.

Condition is all important for some people. Also features. I nearly bought a new style Boxford early last year. Lack of bits was putting me off so as they can be bought new I priced them. Didn't look so good but maybe ok then I noticed that models vary and this particular one needed loads of gears for screw cutting. There weren't any so that put me right off. Another couldn't be run but playing about with it I noticed that the half nuts could jump out.

If something interesting is seen, they do crop up, lathes co uk can usually tell something about them but personally on ebay or anywhere else I would prefer to go and look or get some answers to just how well the lathe turns. Even an idea of the taper over a few inches gives a clue on that aspect. If it was a gearhead I'd most definitely want to hear it running and hope to be able to turn with it as well.

John

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Not sure about previous cars really but I think they have given both figures for some time now. I'd have to look to check but miles per L might need 2 decimal places to be as accurate.

I suspect that both are there because many people compare a car with what they had previously and have been doing so for a long long time.

Clothes are more interesting. The post metrication inch seems to be smaller to me or maybe I have put on more weight. Round my neck though - I don't think so.

Timber had an interesting time at one point as well. Still feet and inches etc but for some reason smaller. That was long ago.

John

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Neither Mark. No aim concerning arguments here. I've already mentioned why I bought the guide. Current levels an deaths weren't based on starting any arguments just based on info I received from people who are specialists in that area. It really wouldn't be a good idea for people to assume that rcd's fully protect people. They wont.

John

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They often do. In some ways it keeps the forum going. This sort of area can be more of a problem. The guide has getting on for 400 pages. Posts can only be so long. Best advice really is buy it and read it if it's of interest.

Frankly though I would be rather surprised if anyone reading threads like this here or anywhere else really thought that it would give them all of the information they need to do jobs like this. The other point of cause is that essentially what people can actually do themselves is severely limited. I would have thought every one was well aware of that.

John

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The move to L came about because of the ever increasing price per gallon. They thought we wouldn't notice and be less likely to complain as the smaller incremental increases seem to be negligible.

I can't honestly recollect when the change came but vaguely remember that it was down to it exceeding £1 per gallon or maybe getting nearer 2.

Changes in the coins that are available seem to work in a similar way.

John

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I'd second that comment Toby. If they want to know why not just buy the IET guide.

Maybe I am a control freak but maybe not. I like to know what should be done who ever does it. It can be useful. For instance the gas pipe bonding. The guide states something entirely different in my situation where the meter isn't in the house so if some one at some point wants to wreck the appearance of the place which seems likely I can point that out.

I understand that the guide may mention things that the building regs don't and the advice is to follow them 'cause if something goes wrong an electrician might find themselves being sued.

Toby has raised an interesting point as to why. For instance if some one has a metal waste pipe that contacts the earth it must be bonded.

The gas pipe needs seems really weird to me though. I'd love to know the reasoning.

As to 100ma RCD's. I have no need. If I did I would take the trouble to find out the why's a wherefores of their use. The only reason I posted the link was to show that they were available.

John

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That's a load of crap Neil. The probably correct rumour in the software world was that it was caused by a bug in the compiler they used which was so old they thought it must be ok and couldn't possibly have any problems at all Then they started worrying about just how bug free the ada compiler was given all of the changes that had been made. One thing for sure the loss was caused by a compiler bug.

John

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Ok by me but afraid I don't entirely agree. One of the odd jobs I did was design and help install a large ev battery pack cycling installation. 200v+ packs, lots of them. We had some experts in on this particular subject. Why I don't really know as precautions obviously needed to be taken. There were concerns about the fact that it was DC too and much higher voltages when they were on charge. It turns out that much of the information that is available comes from experimentation with pigs but doesn't really match the reports from actual accidents. It can go either way and is somewhat dependent on the person and also just where the current flows. In one extreme is seems that people have caught fire in electric chairs before they die and on the the other hand much lower currents can kill.

I'd strongly advise people not to stick one hand on a well bonded sink and then poke a finger on the other hand into something live. Sums it up pretty well really. That particular path is worst case. It also looks like there is no specific call for sink bonding in BS7671 or by the IET. This may be why.

One thing for sure when I had to work on a live panel they didn't make me feel over confident. The word panel in my sense though is some box maybe a large one with all sorts of bits and pieces in it.

John

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RCD's do not provide protection against electrocution Nick. They are there to prevent fires. The claim is that the bulk of fires in the UK are caused by faults in the electrical circuitry in houses.

I have had a kick from the mains at work a couple of times. They feel the same even when there is an RCD there. Peoples immunity varies too. PAT probably has more gain in this area but as far as I know not needed in domestic environments.

Wouldn't surprise me if the bulk of house fire of this nature were down to rubber insulated house wiring that has perished but statistics are statistics and don't always account for cause on things like this - just like the effect of so called safety cameras hidden around corners to catch people for minor speeding offences.

Quick edit. I thought that a range of rcd trip currents were still available

http://www.screwfix.com/p/bg-80a-100ma-double-pole-type-ac-rcd/5948P?kpid=5948P&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&gclid=CPXUvPWRsdECFY8Q0wodbIsE_g

The low limit was either 5 or 10ma - can't remember which. Next step as I understand it is none at all and clear marking but it's hard to see why at this level.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 07/01/2017 23:05:09

Maybe I should fit and earth spike and something simple. If it didn't work out I'd have the enjoyment of seeing them test it.

What I meant actually was that they should test the pipe itself. Part if not the main reason for doing it is shorts in the house to a pipe but I suspect they are up to what I mentioned on the gas pipe as 10mm"2 doesn't make much sense. To get the grounding to work well they would probably need to bond the domestic side to the actual gas feed to the house bypassing the flexible pipe that is fitted to our meter back to the stop cock. They change those every now and again and have also now switched to a style that it incredibly light weight. If it came to the bonding failing before the flexible did I'd back the bonding. This doesn't sound safe to me.

An interesting page on who is responsible for what indicating that electricians can / can't pull fuses as the extra isolation isn't shown very clearly.

**LINK**

I don't think I mentioned the saga of the pulled fuse. We have 2 meters with independent feeds. I've long suspected that they are on different phases, Anyway one day no power on the 2nd floor. Other houses had power so I pulled out the main fuse to check them. No seal on them anyway. Ok so phoned them. They had a phase fail so I mentioned the fuse and said I can put it back in. Muttering in the background and then no there might be a spark to which I said I can turn everything off. No we will send some one out. Using a name for them that many will know what I mean 3 suits turned up in a posh car to put the fuse back in all wearing macs not overalls and one had the bits needed to seal the fuse in his pocket. There was even a discussion about who should put it back in. It was delegated by the man who appeared to the the senior one.

John

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Personally I would look at the similar ones that can be used on or off the swivel base to give max headroom when the swivel isn't needed.

If I thought you could collect from B'ham I'd also mention that I have one virtually unused that I want to sell at some point. I think Arc do them too. There are several ways of holding things on some of them.

John

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To late now and I thought I had posted this.

During training I was given several die stock to open out. The number I was told I think was by 0.015". Any larger and the die might break. I would have thought that 0.010" would be enough for many dies.

I was told that after WWII they all started coming in on size. Before that there was always enough clearance so when new ones were bought they gave one of us the job of opening them out. No problem on bigger lathes as the handles can remain on.

The idea worked too. One of the early exercises was using a die to get a precisely sized thread. 5/16 bsw if I remember correctly measured with a mic. It tools several cuts and finished up with a nice shiny thread. I suspect the tallow they supplied had something to do with the finish but very light cuts would help too.

John

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There are loads of plastic consumer units on ebay. One mentioned must be fitted with into a fire proof box. I doubt if they really allow that. A number of them are water proof. The regs imply that these can't be used for any purposes in a domestic environment - or some seem to think they do.

One thing I wondered is if the switch and rcd was taken out and just the current trips left would it still be a consumer unit. Maybe even if just the rcd was taken out. To make up a sort of distribution board / super junction box for spurs etc.

I think I read somewhere about the height of consumer units above the floor being regulated. If we ever updated our and it was moved indoors the most sensible places are all over 6ft off the floor. Can't be under the stairs so some child at some point might play with it. Our consumer units are good old Bakelite that has stood the test of many many years.

Personally when comprehensive regulations are introduced I think a lot of people should be retired off when they are reasonably ok. A problem with people. If they have a job they are almost bound to carry on thinking up other things to do.

One new idea which seems to be purely aimed at circumventing one aspect of the regulations is being rolled out when smart meters are installed. They fit a totally separate isolator in the feed to the consumer unit so that ordinary electricians can work on them. Pulling the fuses isn't ok any more - I mean they are sealed. That's what the man told me anyway - so it doesn't need some one like him to work on it.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 07/01/2017 15:35:14

The reason for the metal boxes is simple - anything goes wrong in there - rats chewing cables etc can happen and it will most definitely blow a fuse if it causes a problem. The other aspect is fire risk and if so fumes. Fire risk is also now the main reason for rcd's but I feel that they are still a bit bound up on other aspects. In other words how much current to cause a fire? Bit of an imponderable. I'm pretty sure higher current trip level RCD's are still available. Not sure that anyone can use them but believe that the official feeling is that any rating is better than none.

I didn't want to mention don't have to be used on here. It's a bit like PAT testing there are variables. I do wonder why an industrial plug though. Suggests there is something wrong with what we usually use. I would also wonder if fixed wiring regs were different to plugs.

I used to talk to some one who was directly involved in establishing the regs. Conduit would make it easy to replace cables. It's fortunate for many people that rubber was bigger than pvc so the pvc could generally be pulled through. The other thought was drilling holes in walls. The metal type they used in houses probably didn't help at all with that.

The latest addition is bugging me. 10mm^2 bonding on gas pipes just past the meter. If you have one of the people in who can work on the supply side of things they have to leave a card saying this should be done. There are also some cowboys about leaving card saying must do it now. The person who left one here was apologetic about it and shook his head when he told me about the 10mm^2. He said he has to leave them just about everywhere he goes. I said no way. He said we will just run it around your door - our front door in this case on the outside. So I said no you wont you'll fit an earth spike to which he said that the problem with those is ensuring they are really in contact. Testing I suppose. Well there are metres and metres of metal pipe work running off the things so I am pretty sure it would pass just as it is. Same with the water pipe. It seems that both can come in on plastic now but why 10mm. In a lot of more recent house the run would be very short. It's long on ours but the water pipe bonding cable on most house will be long. Then I remembered a complaint from the suppliers a long time ago. So much current was being dumped to earth that the local potential compared with the substation earth was often too high so wonder if this is a cheap way of them improving it as something doesn't make sense.

Anyway leaves me wondering why regs don't state test it and fix if needed as far as bonding is concerned.

John

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I might be inclined to remove it and also if possible check the rcd. If that is faulty a replacement might be ok. It might not be.

Brush dust is a well known cause of the problem. It can be difficult to get rid of it entirely as well.

RCD's were about well before the 90's. Not sure when they started being regularly put in houses though. I married in 85 so it was well before that. My electronics workbench at work was initially fitted with a stupidly low one. Later increased and later still modified 2 way adapters were provided with the earth disconnected from the supply. Painted red. Earth loops were interfering with measurements. There is still some scope for having gear that isn't protected this way but I think anyone trying to get round it that way in a private workshop or house could be breaking the law now.

I've never lived in a property with RCD's but do recollect that there were a lot of screams and shouts when they started appearing in houses. All sorts tripped them out. I don't know what the current levels were initially. I do know that there were thoughts about preventing electrocution but having once been involved with worries in that direction I don't think that is actually possible. Depends what is holding what. I'm fairly certain various trip levels were available.

The current regs were more or less established by i would say 1980 or there abouts. Some aspects seem to have been dropped. The voltage drop aspects etc were all there. When I rewired my fathers property he flatly refused to have a plastic consumer unit fitted. He got some one to find him and old metal one that had been removed from some where else so I'm not surprised that the plastic ones are forbidden now. Good job too. Stupid idea. Apart from bonding and at the time the lack of conduit the wiring would meet current regs. Bonding was specified but not needed then. The need for conduit seems to have disappeared in houses anyway.

Whoops Toby might pick me up on that. Conduit of some sort - seems to depend on where hidden cables run.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 07/01/2017 10:57:24