Member postings for Ajohnw

It was buried on their site some where MG. More of a comment than a spec and not up to what Peatol claim which initially as far as mine was concerned is over stated. It was better. Couldn't fault it even on finish. I did set it all up as I usually do - tight and also followed Peatol's lapping instructions. Just some time with a mix of CIF and oil. 3 in 1 if I remember correctly.

It probably wasn't a good idea to take a cut that might be 3/4" deep in one go with the riser block on. Incredibly thin swarf coming off but it is asking a bit much. It did it though. I have heard loss of alignment complaints from others at times that do much lighter work. Peatol suggests shimming it back up with silver paper.

Maybe the only way to really find out is to get an honest answer from a user or buy one. What concerned me when I thought about them was no spec at all. There should be if they have confidence in the product. I always feel that there isn't that much point in looking at the work people get out of various models of lathe because with varying degrees if hand work even a read dog of a machine can produce excellent work. It all depends on the time some one wants to spend.

John

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That's interesting. I've heard comments in the past that the smallest gear that will mesh with the 100T is 40T so the 56 must mesh with that and the small ones with the 127. Actual 40T may be too small. So if the above chart works it should show the compound as 100 - 127.

Thanks. I've just checked one of the values. It does work. 56 stops on the leadscrew gear driiven by the 100 and the other drives the 127. So changing one gear can produce all metric pitches even the ones that are out of the ISO spec.

It doesn't work out so nicely with the 100/127 the other way round. Silly me who knows it's best to check anything picked up from the web.

John

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I once spent some time finding out what Shereline's idea of accuracy in terms of alignment was. Not easy to find. I wasn't impressed.

The site Russell linked to offer the longer bed version of the mini lathe. Maybe there are also sellers in Spain who sell the lathes along with the accessories that are likely to be needed. Sometimes that way works out cheaper. The usual things that are needed are, 3 and 4 jaw chucks, drill chuck, fixed steady, turning tools and faceplates can be useful as can centres. People usually want a quick change toolpost as well eventually. Screw cutting needs a set of gears with these lathes. Often they always come with those.

I didn't have much trouble finding a selller in Spain either

**LINK**

One thing to add on weight it's often the shipping weight so don't assume the lathe must weigh 40kg. it wont be far off it though.

John

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Have you actually undone a joint made with it Hopper ?

The problem is a mix of things, I noticed the problem when I changed the pipe tail on the back of the 3 in 1 welder to a male euro coupler. Bit's of tape. Despite it's price they have fitted a mesh fitter into the tail on the welder so shouldn't be a problem but I plug the compressor into other things that wont have that. Ok the filter I have fitted will take those out. I may need to change things round as I have gone the simple way. Euro connector from the argon regulator and flow gauge and also straight from the compressor for cutting.

The problem seems to be that the female part is distorted to make the seal so may not need anything at all but as it's only over a couple of threads it can cut the tape. Also tape about 6mm wide would be easier to use. I had no luck finding any but the tape could still get cut.

I have the la co slick tight now ordered from screwfix before I noticed wickes keep it at the same price. It's a very thick ptfe paste. So thick it might be "interesting" to use but I get the impression that the general idea is to simply wipe any excess off so will try adding a band around the area where the taper meets the female part.

One thing I like about the la co is they haven't gone to any trouble to seal the bottle so if I do any compression fittings in n years time it may well still be ok - Providing it works on those. It's not too good on parallel threads according to wickes but tape is usually fine for those on taps etc.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 19/01/2017 13:48:55

I had a Taig fron Peatol in the UK. First home lathe. I used it for making bits and bobs. Part of the reason for buying it was a pending change of job so couldn't use one at work any more.

I bought most of the bits that are available for it and used all of them. The tailstock isn't brilliant but does work. It was a very precise lathe initially but eventually the headstock distorted so it started turning several thou taper over say 4" or so. I've heard that even clock makers get this problem but probably not to the same degree. I did one job on mine repairing a part for a larger lathe with the riser block on that made the taper a lot worse. I don't think that a C0 would be capable of doing this particular job - not sufficient power at the rpm level I needed to use. Also I doubt if it is rigid enough. The Taig i had used a 1/4hp motor and belt drive. Some now come with a variable speed universal brushed motor that wouldn't offer the same power levels. Heavier work with the riser block on probably isn't a good idea anyway. It's intended to allow steam engine etc flywheels to be skimmed up.

One thing about them is a fact. Buy the kit for them and they can be used to make all sorts of things. They even mill rather well via the vertical slide. All of the parts are well made too.

As to the C0, the baby lathe some one called Brian in Australia is making stirling engines and others on one. An Opti model, not Sieg. It had some serious problems but that doesn't mean all are like that. Before he bought it he was probably warned that it's too small really for what he wants to do with it. He now wishes for something bigger. That hasn't taken long. Brian has done remarkable well with it but some one did some work on the lathe first. Not just fix the fault that if any one of many people on here would have spotted pretty quickly and sent it back.

My advice would be to forget both machines and buy a mini lathe. Lathes aren't naturally light weight machines and Chinese lathes are built at a cost not to be as good as a lathe the size of a baby lathe could be. Same's true of the mini lathe which is the next size up but there are a number of improvements not least an increase in centre distance plus screw cutting indicators on some. While you may not think you need the increase in centre distance you will when you drill holes in work. Brian managed to buy a set of stub drills which helps. He's in Australia and they are easy to find there. Even the 14" on some mini lathes is rather short really. 18" is a favoured minimum centre distance but probably a bit over the top for a lot of model engineering type work.

I had a look on ebay in spain out of curiosity. Plenty of UK and German lathe listings and some Spanish for Optimum. Prices look high to me probably as the Spanish company only has to compete with sellers from other countries. I haven't checked UK prices though.

If you do buy a mini lathe I would be inclined to suggest this one or similar from the same seller,

**LINK**

Mainly because it has a larger centre distance than some BUT also because it comes with a screw cutting indicator. In fact I think that the metric version comes with 2 gears for that which allow all of the usual metric pitches to be cut without having to stop and reverse the lathe. His website is called Amadeal. I've only ever bought tooling of them but no complaints about anything I have bought.

I wondered if their was a machinemart branch in spain. Google bought this up. Don't know if it will help

**LINK**

Probably not but maybe.

As to the 2 mentioned to be honest if it was for me I could think of good reasons for buying either of them but don't think that either is really suitable for the intended use.

John

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John F's is more like what has to be done on bigger machines. I was thinking in terms of stuff that can run off a normal 3 pin plug as a panic button is fine for breaking that circuit providing it's current rating is high enough. A lot of them are 10A though. Personally as long as these only break current when there is a panic I think they would be ok even at 13A via a fuse.

Don't take any notice of me though. It's your choice. Max power in my case is 1hp so say may be 2 going in.

When a contactor is used for higher currents it finishes up like an NVR switch. Some how energising it holds it in. That could be done with an NVR switch, A panic button can then be added to the power to the nvr switch also any other safety switches in series.

This shouldn't really be used to start and stop the machine. Either the controls on it or even an inverter should be used. If something needs to added it should be an on off switch unit with adequate current rating.

In my youth I did a big box to do this sort of thing with massive contactors capable of switching several hundred amps and breaking a lot more. As it was all in one box I used 240v AC contactor coils to save adding a low voltage supply. The were single contact units that even had arc shutes. They were held in with a latching relay - a normally open contact pair is simply used to energise the coil when the relay is pulled in. I used normal relays for that because I thought the current levels and sparks when they opened and the wiping action when closing would keep the contacts clean. It didn't. They all passivated in a couple of months so had to fit gold flashed one. Those went on working for years. Just in case some one does a complete diy job. While 100ma or so may sound ok in this case it wasn't. On a later similar job I did use a low voltage supply and smaller relays. I liked the octal base type on the first job as it just needed round holes. More sexy too.

I use the inverter as an NVR on my lathe and for control just as the manufacturers recommend. My miller isn't fitted with one. It's 1/2hp so should be fitted with an on off switch box with nvr built in. To be honest I personally don't see a need for a panic button on this. It's a small machine, (Dore Westbury). Having seen a rather large millers castings crack when some one walled away and left just the feed on I'd choose a wiring method that didn't allow that to happen. Maybe limit switches too.

John

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Lots of new machines come with emergency stop buttons. Some come with an NVR switch with some sort of latching cover. The cover usually has to be lifted up to start the machine. When the cover is latched down it holds the off button in.

There needn't be that much difference in what the 2 types can do but it depends on the type of switches used in the nvr and how they are wired. Th E stop button should directly force the contacts apart. The general idea is that they should still work even in fault conditions. They are there for panics so only break power when there is one so should last a long time without any problem. The other type using some form of NVR are usually used to start and stop the machine all of the time.

Some machines do seem to come with the NVR type. Lathes always seem to come with the emergency stop button. When I have something with the NVR type I usually take the cover off 'cause the cover has to be lifted to turn it off in the normal way as well as when I start it. My bandsaw has one. I suspect there may be some rules somewhere concerning items that can be sold with these fitted. A pultra lathe I have had been fitted with one because it's cheap. The cover soon came of that.

Either way some other switch is needed somewhere to isolate the lot. Might just be a switch in a 3 pin plug socket however a factory etc would have a full blown isolator - big metal box with a lever on the side. Also an emergency stop button and start stop buttons on the machine that are usually arranged in an nvr fashion. Should have said always really so that if the power goes it doesn't just start up again. In many cases they wouldn't just rely on what was built into the machine and add an nvr switch as well.

John

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Availability:

Item is on a long delivery or is discontinued

Unfortunately APT are sometimes rather good at doing that. It can be a very very long time before they restock as well - fi they ever do. Maybe requesting an email when they restock helps.

John

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I wondered about tru blu and use it but don't know if like liquid ptfe it comes with the undo problem as it does set.

I've never had to undo anything I've used tru blu on. I don't think it's anaerobic though. All ptfe liquids seem to be.

The Al Co stuff is a very thick ptfe paste.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 18/01/2017 20:25:42

Not really Steve. It suites me to buy the stuff I mentioned due to some pending pipe fitting to taps etc in the work I am doing on the kitchen. The last time I used my boss green was about 6 months ago and it wasn't in a very good state. Time before that probably several years. I do take care to seal them and position the polythene carefully. I also usually manage to restore the stuff for use but hard bits don't go away.

So I'm left with a choice. Use a recognised anaerobic one or something else. A review on screwfix suggests that the something else will be fine. Having undone a commercially made joint that use the other type I am not at all keen on using one of those unless I must. They'd applied enough to seal over a couple of threads. Even so it took several hefty hits on large spanner with a lump hammer to undo it. A blow torch also helped. As I am likely to need to change things around it just isn't suitable.

I used to run cars that I just couldn't afford to run without doing everything including rebuilds myself. I have never had a single problem with leaks after switching to hylomar and it also pays dividends if for some reason stuff has to be dismantled again. Not an uncommon thing to have to do on Lotus's.

One of the trade reviews might interest you

I assume the trade name has changed.

This what they say about La Co

For threaded pipes carrying hot or cold water, gases, steam, air, petrol, oils and refrigerants. Solvent and water-free, contains teflon and PTFE. Brushes on oily, wet or cold threads. Disassembles easily. Will not dry out or harden.

It describes itself as heavy duty so I may find it too thick but some one has used it on a compressor.

I am tempted to use Hylomar. I've probably used that and moly grease for longer than most as one of my uncles was an aircraft fitter.

John

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APT's own brand stuff seems to be pretty good to me and the prices are reasonable.

I use the triangular carbide tips - 3 points all the same. I use the usual hobby holders but make sure they use torx screws. The hex socket ones are a waste of money as they round over. The same tips can be used in various sizes of boring bar so I just stock one tip. Other styles probably also offer the same. The triangular ones will cut in both directions after a fashion so mimic what I often grind on HSS.

The reason I mentioned size is that I use the 11mm ones. There are some tips which look suitable for cast iron - no rake, no chip breaker and low clearance angles but only at 16mm and up.

I have turned a lot of cast iron in the past - before using indexed tips. My favourite was a red V nosed brazed tip. They have a large rad on the end which isn't the best thing for small lathes but once the skin is off they can give a decent finish. Even when it's been taken off really. An ordinary bar turning type will probably remove more material without using much power. I found the V nose ok on a clarke type mill drill though. They are decent quality ones - came of Reeves when they were in Marston Green. At the time a lot of people used the blue ones.

John

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One post better note that taper into taper doesn't seem to be the standard any more. No idea when this happened but one comment on the web suggested that female went parallel on the basis than metric pipe was done this way. The general idea is that it should seal on a couple of threads via distorting the female part. I've bought fittings from 2 suppliers one major and they all use parallel female and taper male even on things like T's, reducing bushes or what ever. I want a female-female-male T and even that is the same. I've not really looked at them but did notice cone hydraulic fittings much the same as used for welding gas - spherical surface and a cone joints. Also some like my breakable joint with an o ring on the spherical part.

I should have thought more when I used the ptfe tape as it was difficult to use. Bits are bound to occur because it will only really be compressed over a short length.

There are plenty of comments around on not being able to undo bsp fittings that have been sealed with loctite this and that also other dedicated pipe thread sealers. I'd probably use tru blue if it wasn't for that. That one might be ok for undoing.

Cheap option - probably an automotive gasket glue such as red hermatite or even hylomar but the liquid ptfe one that set don't cost much.

I do have some hemp. It can be handy at times living in an old house.

Nope - going to use the none setting one I mentioned. The first review used it on 10 bar and it may well take a lot more than that.

Steam - i'd probably try hylomar and see what happens.

The compressor did have a way of using PTFE tape that could be used at times. Rather a lot of it so that it doesn't go into the female hole and finishes up as a sort of ptfe 0 ring.

I don't mind forking out for the screwfix one as from time to time I need to do water compression joints. I'm fed up of finding the boss green has gone hard. It's possible to wrap them with ptfe tape instead but this style of none setting sealer has been around for a long time and hopefully doesn't go off in the can.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 18/01/2017 13:37:11

While I was fitting an adapter it came on and off a couple of times and I noticed small bits of ptfe tape had been torn off doing it up. Looking around on the web this seems to be a common problem and the tape can finish up blocking things.

The only pneumatics I have been near have all used push fit fittings so I wasn't sure about what to use to seal or if sealing is needed. The web suggests that BSP female switched to parallel at some point but still using a tapered male. So decided to use tape. Looks like that's a bad idea.

There are a number of different type of liquid ptfe pipe thread sealer about most are anaerobic and screwfix reviews suggest that once done up undoing is tricky - locked solid. I didn't look on their site initially. I have undone one fitting that had been sealed this way. Took heat, a lump hammer and 300mm wrench. They do sell a sealer called La Co. It's the only none setting one I can find.

so undo the ones I've done. clean up and re seal.

John

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BOC for 20L, Y sized cylinder gas £47.97, rent £75.72. I've added vat. That 230bar though so 5m^3. I've seen several where they contain 4m^3 plus a bit more. I came across one rental deal where the fill was 300bar and the regulator is fitted but the deposit was a couple of hundred and the fill charge very high even accounting for near 30% more of it.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 17/01/2017 23:55:24

I wondered what the wiki had to say on the subject quote

It is one of the most commonly used compressed gases for pneumatic (pressurized gas) systems in portable pressure tools. Carbon dioxide is also used as an atmosphere for welding, although in the welding arc, it reacts to oxidize most metals. Use in the automotive industry is common despite significant evidence that welds made in carbon dioxide are more brittle than those made in more inert atmospheres, and that such weld joints deteriorate over time because of the formation of carbonic acid.^{[citation needed]} It is used as a welding gas primarily because it is much less expensive than more inert gases such as argon or helium.^{[citation needed]} When used for MIG welding, CO₂ use is sometimes referred to as MAG welding, for Metal Active Gas, as CO₂ can react at these high temperatures. It tends to produce a hotter puddle than truly inert atmospheres, improving the flow characteristics. Although, this may be due to atmospheric reactions occurring at the puddle site. This is usually the opposite of the desired effect when welding, as it tends to embrittle the site, but may not be a problem for general mild steel welding, where ultimate ductility is not a major concern.

John

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A bit or trivia - Neon is more noble than argon. More so than helium too, or thought to be.

Left me wondering if neon could be used for welding. The breakdown voltages vary too.

A link to a table

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_gas

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 17/01/2017 16:35:39

There sometimes is a big difference between lathe tools from various suppliers. Using torx screws on indexed tips for instance. Also the tips fitted. Spare screws, maybe spare torx drivers as well. There is a certain amount of penny pinching in this area.

Not knowing what lathe you are using you may find it difficult to find a truly suitable indexable tip especially if it's a tough skin on cast iron. In that case you might be better of with braised tip in K20 or even P30. These generally have very low clearance angles on them so it's important not to set over centre height and as it's carbide be gentle with intermittent cuts - speed wise more than anything else. K20's should be red and P30's blue.

They can be reground with a green grit wheel. Rather well actually.

John

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More from BOC via email. I now have an account number and my welcome pack will arrive shortly.

Also a note - my account is not set for direct debit and this will mean that a £2.40 transaction fee will be added to all invoices. Maybe the depot's can't accept payment with say a debit card? They attach a direct debit mandate form and a free post address to send it to. They also mention an original signature which I would have thought the bank would want anyway so why the docusign method.

What actually thought was that there would be some other way of setting up a direct debit and intended to do that if needed anyway.

Blue background on the dd form. Uses more of my laser ink than needed. Would in black and white too.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 17/01/2017 14:26:42

The bottle trolley looks pretty good. I just wheeled my son around on it. He weighs over 90kg.

The max bottle width at the bottom is 235mm, top more or less the same. No signs of rust inside the tubes. Nice big wheels.

The powder coating will get chipped off with use especially under the bottom platform. As it looks to be a keeper I may do something about that. Piece of thin al sheet or something.

It's possible to pay silly amounts for these things, including what may be the same model.

John

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