Member postings for Doubletop

Eric

I know nothing of Lee springs codes but here is the relevant part of the write up in the series. However, I went to our local DIY store and purchased some suitable stock springs and cut them to length. The rear's could be a bit stifer but it runs fine.

Springs for 31⁄2in. gauge locomotives are commercially available, but will probably be rather too stiff for such a light locomotive, so the springs for Northumbrian are best made from scratch. Some 22 gauge piano wire will be about right for the driving axle springs. The trailing ones can be thinner. Winding the springs is not difficult, although it takes a bit of practice. Find a bit of steel rod about 6in. long, and slightly smaller than the required internal diameter of the spring, in this case about 3⁄32 inch. Put the rod in the 3-jaw chuck, trap one end of the piano wire under a jaw, then rotate the chuck with your left hand, guiding the wire onto the rod with your right, keeping each coil of wire in contact with the last. When you have wound about 4in. release the tension on the wire and the coils will spring evenly apart.

Cut up the coil with snips or side cutters to make the individual springs. The driving springs will need to be about 11⁄4in. free length, and the trailing springs about 5⁄8in. but some adjustment will probably be necessary when the locomotive is complete. Flatten the ends of each spring by holding lightly against the side of a grinding wheel. Now fit the axles to the chassis, and put on the horn stays.

Compress the trailing springs with tweezers, and slip them into their seating in the axleboxes. If the ends of the springs are flat, they will stay

Pete

In the past I was having trouble getting a safety valve to work after many attempts, so dug out all the information I could get from the books on hand LSBC, Martin Evans etc etc. I came to the conclusion there were only minor evolutionary changes from LSBC's 1920's designs to modern versions. I had started to tabulate the dimensions to see what was common and noticed trends. It was only when I got a copy of the Kozo Hiraoka article on safety valves in Live Steam and Outdoor Railroading Vol41 Issue 1 that confirmed there is a direct relationship in all the dimensions. So not much scope for variation and you can see why these guys would stick to what worked.

Get it here **LINK** (which may seem strange on the ME website but the article is so good perhaps David could arrange for a re-print?)

They'll ship worldwide

In the end I gave up trying and now buy from Polly Model, they work out of the box and as your experienced has shown they aren't something to be messed with.

Pete

I do find this all mildly amusing. From what I can see this topic of errors on plans seems to crop up regularly and has no doubt been a problem from issue 1 of ME. I consider myself a beginner albeit now with 2 years behind me. I've built the Northumbrian and it runs, I didn't use the plans, just the magazine articles. Before I started I asked if there were any problems and David, Jason and others pointed me at all the known issues. In my journey I found more and published them on the Northumbrian thread.

My point; It’s clear there have always been errors in drawings, there always will be. In the past model builders either put up with it and suffered in silence or wrote a letter to the editor and may or may not have got a reply in a subsequent issue. No doubt some months later. We now have the Internet so we either use it as a means for near real time whinging or better use of the forum and report and check for errors. No need for re-prints, or rebuilds to check corrections, just everybody contribute errors as they find them. Subsequent builders can check and confirm for themselves if the reported issues are material or not.

That said MHS still has a duty to ensure the quality of published plans but won''t find everything so “Buyer beware”.

Pete

I'd suggest 242 isn't rally the correct product. Try loctite 592 pipe sealant. Good for 400degF Its easy to apply and nice clean joints. Try the plumbers merchants.

Otherwise use ptfe tape for temporay jobs like boiler testing, also from the plumbers

Pete

Phil

If you've read my thread on HMEM I didn't make my Rob Roy. I took it over from my dad who had started it in the 80's it was all but complete in bare metal and had never been steamed. I just finished it off and got it running.

It occurs to me looking at my picture that two of the 'rod' stretchers could be included without getting in the way of anything. Theye are easily removed for access if needs be.

Pete

Phil

I knew you'd ask that and I had searched my pictures for an example for you but for some reason didn't have one. But I do now

While I was taking photos for you I remembered the most important modification to make driving far more pleasurable. Move the bypass into the cab

This was a retrofit for me so I replaced the bypass valve from the front of the tank with a through connector.

Run the pipework right through the tank, put the valve in the cab and loop the return back into the tank.

It could be tidier but I was using the parts I had.

Hope that helps

Pete

Edited By Doubletop on 12/06/2012 09:38:35

There was another I'm aware of and that’s the lack of a stretcher between the cylinders and the inlet/exhaust in effect become a stretcher. Mine wouldn't go round some of the tighter corners and when I measured the gap between the frames at the cylinders it was too wide at the bottom ( the saddle act as a stretcher at the top). I drilled through a pair of opposing cylinder mounting holes, made a piece of 1/4" silver steel the correct spacing, drilled and tapped the ends and put it between the frames. That ensured the correct spacing at the bottom.

Sorry no picture for some reason

Pete

When I painted my Rob Roy it was the first time I had painted a loco. I used heatproof paint and painted the inner frames red and the outer frames black. Once that was done I baked the frames. It turned out that I hadn't baked them enough and the constant work and copious amounts of oil when getting it going the paint job started to look pretty shoddy. In the end I gave up and left it until I got the loco running properly and then completely stripped it down again , removed all the paint and had the frames powder coated. In order to do that each of the places where components joined were masked off to maintain dimensional integrity. The powder coating company provided the high temp masking tape.

Here's the link to the section of my thread on the powder coating

**LINK**

I’d suggest, the issue of heat isn't a problem the powder coat is baked at about 200degC. Outside of the boiler won't be that, even at 80psi.

The trouble heat proof paint is it doesn't gain its oil and solvent resistance until its been well baked. Until then it will come off at the slightest hint of oil. I now use a hooded gas barbeque with a temp gauge in the hood. It will take a whole frame and the baking can be kept at about 200deg for an hour without SWMBO complaining about the stink in the kitchen and the next Sunday roast tasting distinctly dodgy.

I'd imagine others have painted many more locos than me but from my experience, I'm on my third now, I'd leave it as late as possible. I had my Rob Roy apart about 5 times before I was happy with it; the paint gets decidedly tattier each time.

Pete

Phil

Like Bob I'd suggest screws you'll be taking it apart a few times to get it set up. The valve chests aren't that easy to get to and the inlet and exhaust pipework has to come out to get the covers off.

And no soft solder it does get hot.

Pete

I'm slightly amused by this Smiths discussion sitting in NZ reading my copy arrived here 5 days after it was released. I had ordered it on the same day. If Smiths can't come up with the goods then why not vote with your feet and order it online from MHS? The online ordering page is only clicks away from where this dicussion is ocuring.

You don't know what you are missing.........

Pete

Phil

Thanks for the picture I searched and searched the internet for a picture and came up with nothing like your picture from the book. The best I've seen. All I could come up with was

(image on original site)

And here

**LINK**

and here

**LINK**

Looks like you've made a good start there, abeit a while back

Pete

Edited By Doubletop on 28/05/2012 08:38:02

Edited By Doubletop on 28/05/2012 08:42:41

Phil

I see you've decided to complete your Rob Roy. As it happens I can probably help you with your question on gas firing here.

My thread on gas firing a Rob Roy

**LINK**

And the full story here

**LINK**

Near the end YouTube videos of it running, on gas.

I'll admit it probably isn't as good as being coal fired, but I've never tried coal firing it. Its quick to get get running and quick to get packed up at the end of the day.

Happy to help with any questions but please post them over on the HMEM site to keep the info in one place

Pete

Edited By Doubletop on 27/05/2012 02:31:54

Phil

God luck with the Rob Roy. I'll answer your query on gas firing one over on your other therad

Pete

My copy was dispatched on Friday and received this morning (Wednesday). Unremarkable, but I'm in Wellington New Zealand. I've had a quick skim and it's brilliant.

I've lost control for the time being as SWMBO has taken over as she reads the Crofton article. We visited it on our last trip to blighty.

Pete

Jeff

Some good ideas there but some woudn't work in this case I'm afraid e.g #4 - the ecentrics are on the front, and only driven axle.

I did get a suggestion for neo magnets to be mounted in all four corners just above the rails. I worked out that with a 2mm spacing , four magnets that wouldn't look too out of place could provide about 2Kg of pull each, so 8Kg total. That over doubles the weight. No ally tracks though.

The lead weight I've added gives an extra 1Kg

Pete

Edited By Doubletop on 22/05/2012 10:48:52

A bit of perforated sheet and a can of gold spray paint and you'd be away. You could even cut a section out of the drum from an old tumble dryer.

I also had a look at the bid history why would the same person repeatedly outbid themselves, and not one but a number of different bidders did the same thing?

Edited By Doubletop on 21/05/2012 10:00:33

I'm with Sid and Norman on this. There appears to a systemic problem with the way the magazine editing is being managed and David needs some assistance to rectify. These days there's no excuse for not having a simple system of recording the receipt of articles and acknowledging their receipt. If David hasn't the time to record, acknowledge, check or read any of the articles then there is clearly something wrong. We also know from the responses to "drawing errors' the final output isn't proof read very well is at all. Clearly help is needed.

The other worrying thing here is the implication of publishing something that is unsafe (remember the IEC connectors on 12v cordless drills?). I would have thought the magazines lawyers would have something to say if they were aware of the process being followed (or not).

On Sid’s observation of David’s habit of answering with rhetorical questions we probably have all noticed it's a habit he has in his replies, which unfortunately come over as a weak excuses rather than the more positive "point taken I'll fix it".

The worrying thing about this thread is those who were going bother writing something and are now having second thoughts. We're all likely to miss out.

Pete

Maybe Nick will answer this one. I've just found the poto of the loco at the Ally Pally exhibition (Vol 208 4423)

Can you tell me what you are using for lagging please? Who is the supplier?

Thanks

Pete

Edited By Doubletop on 17/05/2012 10:42:43

Phil

That looks very nice and clearly you aren't going to have an issue doing the running gear, so I'd say boiler first is a good way to go. On the construction rules, do consult the club, it is them that will be signing it off. They'll also be able to guide you on construction technique, getting the heat, flux and solder combinations right and knowing what to expect to happen is part of the neccesary learning curve.

BTW - also do the frames and stretchers, there's no point in building a boiler that won't fit the frames. Boilers don't seem to comply to +-1 thou" tolerances and seem to come out a bit "more or less"

Pete

Jason

Thanks for pointing Phil over to my build thread

Phil

I think you’ve understood the limitations of this size of locomotive. It’s never going to set the world on fire but it’s an excellent beginners loco to enable you to test your abilities before you invest serious money in a larger locos. Like you I was beginner of about 18 months when I started, I did it because I wanted to try my hand at a ‘real’ boiler, that’s why my HMEM thread started with the end plates. I can’t see your avatar so don’t know if you’ve done a boiler for you small steam engine, if not I’d suggest you try one first.

This should be able to pull somebody, but not my 110plus Kg at the moment. Rainhill I understand was similar; the guys who built the one on my thread 45years ago never fired theirs. One of our club members is doing a Canterbury Lamb and I’m not sure if it’s the way he’s done it but the boiler is tiny so the whole thing is lighter than this

Drawing issues I'm aware of are covered in this series of threads or in my post on HMEM (I think I covered most over here) I didn’t use the drawings at all and did it all from the magazine articles and assistance of others.

There’s another example of one being being built here

Good luck and happy to help with any queries if I can.

Pete