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Member postings for Peter G. Shaw

Here is a list of all the postings Peter G. Shaw has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Overheating grinder
06/11/2009 15:11:36
Hi everyone,
 
Gordon & Ian. Thanks for that. It's looking more and more that my machine is in fact ok. I have to say that I didn't notice any holes through the armature - that is presuming your definition of an armature is the same as mine, ie the rotating bit in the middle.
 
Chris. I too had heard about the difference between older and newer files. So far, apart from the ones ruined in the fire, they seem to be old ones, ie solid high carbon steel. I do have some modern files which frankly are rubbish, and I do have an 8" ½round one ready for experimenting on. It will require quite a bit of grinding/cutting to be able to get any useful metal though.
As for the SMEE bit, I think we'd better stop this. I mean let's face it, "Erin" ('ER In Doors) probably wouldn't speak to me again if I did as you suggested. Mind you, on reflection, maybe not so bad an idea afterall!!!!!!

Regards,
 
Peter
Thread: Dean Smith and Grace
06/11/2009 11:54:07
Hi Raymond,
 
It is quite possible to calculate the changewheels. All you need to know is the leadscrew pitch and possibly depending on the lathe, the number of teeth on the mandrel gear wheel. Note that I don't mean the bull wheel which Myfords have.
 
I would recommend borrowing from the library Len Mason's book, Using the Small Lathe where in Chapter 10 he covers just your problem.
 
Of course, if you had a lathe like mine, Warco 220, you would  find the necessary formulas and a copy of the chart in the handbook - complete with what looks like a mistake!
 
Good luck,
 
Peter G. Shaw
Thread: Overheating grinder
06/11/2009 11:45:06
Circlip,
 
Tha broad Yorkshire dialect's better 'n mine sithee. Unfortunately, although t'old man were Yorshire born 'n bred, t'old woman were a true cockney (born within sound of Bow Bells?). Or was that her mother? Any road, between 'em, they actively discouraged use of broad Yorshire. Which I do think now was a slight mistake. But then again, at least all three of us could make ourselves understood wherever we were in the country.
But yes, I was born in Halifax - top of Salterhebble if you know it, and lived in West Riding until we relocated some 15  years ago.
 
I haven't tried pickling them, although I have read about it. Anyway, the file in question had suffered from rust at some time so it is really a case of re-using what's left.
 
Cheers now,
 
Peter
 
 
 
06/11/2009 11:33:14
Allen,
Thanks for the support, and yes, as you say, after 20 years & £32.95 it doesn't owe me anything. Although, having just dismantled it to look inside, all there is, are two bearings (replaceable), one armature which is extremely unlikely to go wrong - I mean, it doesn't even have any wires, and a fixed double coil set of field windings which are the most likely cause of  any irrepairable failure. But, after 20 years, I really don't see why it shouldn't last me out - say another 20 years? 30 if I'm very lucky, but unlikely.
 
Chris,
I wouldn't dare join such an august body. I mean, how can a C&G Full Technological Certificate "compete" against people with IMechE plus half the alphabet after their names?
After all, I once read a very interesting engineering discourse along with calculations on the support mechanism of the strapless evening gown! Somehow, I don't think Cheese Toastie warming would  be half as interesting!
 
Gordon,
Never noticed the spelling mistake. Instruction books. Ah yes, well, somehow I've managed to keep them for just about everything I've got. How it started I have absolutely no idea, but once I cottoned on that it was a good idea, I now have a "system", eg all the engineering manuals are in the garage/workshop. All the household stuff are in the house in a big folder. All the electronic manuals (non-household) are in the hut. And so on.
I'll have to look into these thin cut disks. Although I have an Aldi 2200w angle grinder with a metal cutting 9"/230mm disk, the disk is something like 6 or 7mm thick which does make cutting stuff up rather wasteful.
 
Regards,
 
Peter
 
05/11/2009 22:40:27
Meyrick,
 
Yes I could have used silver steel. I do have some 3mm, 6mm, 10mm & 12mm square stuff. And some gauge (guage?) plate. All of which cost money. And yes, I'm a Yorkshireman! But the old files are effectively free.
 
And anyway, don't forget, the main model engineering body is the SMEE - Society of Model and Experimental Engineers.
 
Seriously though, one of the reasons I'm into this hobby is simply to see if I can in fact do things - such as convert old files, make a new part for something, etc. So a lot of it is experimenting, and despite the Yorkshireman tag above, I don't particularly mind scrapping and starting again if the first, or second, or.... attempt turns out wrong. After all, that to me, is what it's all about - increasing ones skill and knowledge. So re-using an old file like this, when a bit of silver steel would have been easier, has done just that.

Chris,
 
I presume you mean a motorbike, especially if you know how many miles it's done. FWIW, my brother has a 1973-ish Triumph T120. Don't know the miles though. The car, by the way, was changed because the replacement towbar it needed was the last straw. As a car, it was fine, although bits were no longer working correctly, but I was advised that it was unsafe to tow the caravan.
 
Yes mine is a round top grinder. Flat topped? Didn't know there were any. Anyway, if I did get one, I'd use the flat top for more important things, like the cheese toastie being kept warm. (I was going to say bacon buttie, but I don't eat 'em.)
 
Regards, and goodnight,
 
Peter
05/11/2009 19:32:26
Hi Chris,
 
No I'm not complaining. I was just curious to know if other people had the same problem, and a couple have admitted that they do. And no, I'm not thinking of replacing it.
 
In fact, I am one of the old breed of people in that I will not replace just for replacing's sake, and if I can, I will look at repair first. I will replace if I'm convinced that the replacement will be an improvement, but I do have to be convinced first. That's why until recently we had a 12 yro car which we'd owned for 10 years, a 20 yro tv and a 17yro tv etc.
 
Keeping a cup of tea on it? No thanks, much too dangerous, and despite the fact that I am totally happy working on electrical/electronic stuff, I've survived too many shocks to risk any more. Hand warming I agree with though.
 
Meyrick,
 
Your comment about the grinding disks may well be right as I have been wondering about changing them: they are the original ones.
 
Considering that both the fan, and the centrifugal switch are missing, I therefore don't think there ever was provision on this particular model for a fan, and anyway the first one was just the same so unless there was a bad batch all at the same time....
 
Yours with that big motor will need a fan, and in all probablity has a centrifugal switch as well. 
 
Annealing, and the tool. Well the tool has now worked successfully I'm pleased to say. It's just a pity that the rest of the job isn't as good!
 
Your comment about locally destroying the temper is perfectly valid and I did take a lot of care in preventing the tool from overheating, ie I had some cold water handy ready for frequent dunking.
 
The tool, by the way, was to cut a groove 1mm deep, by 1.1mm wide to take a circlip. I don't know what the scrap steel was that I was cutting, but it did machine up ok. Also, for the groove, I used slowest speed (125rpm) and lots of 50% Rocol.
 
Anyway, many thanks for the discourse, at least I now know I'm not alone in having a hot running grinder.
 
Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw
 
 

05/11/2009 15:30:55
Hi everyone,

Right then, about this grinder.

According to the instruction manual (which covers four grinders from 150W (mine) up to 550W) it is a Clarke CBG-5RSB Heavy Duty Bench Grinder. There is an exploded diagram which does indeed show ventilation holes at the bottom of the end caps, a fan, a centrifugal starting switch and a motor starting capacitor. My grinder does have the ventilation holes and a 3microfarad capacitor which as far as I can tell is directly connected to a winding. It does NOT have either a fan or a centrifugal starting switch.

The inside of the machine is very clean, surprisingly so, but then, there is nothing to suck air and dirt into it. And the run down time after switch off is quite long. Nor does there seem to be any undue resistance when rotating by hand, so I don't see any problem there.

I therefore conclude that despite the "Heavy Duty" tag, it is nothing of the sort, and is meant for light domestic occasional duty use, and indeed, using it in this manner it has run satisfactorily for these last 20 years. It is only when I get into long periods of continuous use does it seemingly get too hot.

Internally, the field coils are mounted on a frame which itself is supported by the outer casing by a small number of pillars. It therefore makes me wonder just what the internal temperature is when the outer casing gets as hot as it does. Another reason for treating it carefully.

Meyrick, you said that your grinder does not run hot. I'd be interested to know, for comparison, what the spec is for your machine, eg power rating, fan etc.

Now about the present project.

I haven't annealed the old file because sometime ago, I tried doing just that by putting some old files into the late evening fire, and whilst they were definitely soft, the outer part simply flaked off. In any case, I created a parting off tool by grinding down an old 4" file to produce a blade about 1.8mm thick by 10-12mm long and since this worked extremely well,  I thought I would use the same technique.

The idea of using an angle grinder for the initial shaping simply did occur, which is rather silly since I have indeed used my angle grinder to cut up an old 10 or 12" file for use as lathe tools. Perhaps that says more about my inability to perform lateral thinking than anything else!   

And finally to Circlip. Eh lad, tha hasn't seen mah workshop. It'd take quite a number of these machines to overcome the heat loss through the roll up door, the single skin walls, the single skin flat roof, the concrete floor, etc.  To be honest, I've given up trying to keep the place warm - it's easier to ensure that the expensive machinery doesn't rust by using individual machine heaters or liberal doses of WD40, and for me to dress accordingly.

So there we are, I don't think I've a problem - just an underpowered low spec device aimed at the casual homebased user.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

Edited By Peter G. Shaw on 05/11/2009 15:32:38

Thread: Rear mounting parting-off tools
04/11/2009 19:34:19
Geoff Shepherd mentions Len Mason's parting tool system using two plates and a bit of hacksaw blade.

I tried this, and didn't have much success - my blades kept breaking.
 
What I did do though, was to use the same idea but instead of hacksaw blades use an old 4" file ground down to a thickness of 1.8mm, (1.8mm because that's where it ended up being successful!)  and a blade length of about 10 to 12mm. Using slowest feed and plenty lubrication, It worked perfectly despite the fact that the clamping device was rather poorly made.
 
Incidently, it's used as a front mounted cutter working the right way up.
 
Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw
Thread: Overheating grinder
04/11/2009 19:20:12
Thanks Ian for your comments. I have to admit that yesterday I got it so hot it started smelling of the typical hot electrical smell.
 
What brought this query on is that currently I'm grinding up an old 6mm file to create a 1.1mm or thereabouts wide tool to cut a groove, and as you can imagine, it's taking some time when you have to stop to allow the grinder to cool down.
 
Still, if other people have hot grinders then that's ok.
 
Thanks,
 
Peter G. Shaw
 
03/11/2009 14:55:54
Gordon,
 
There's no fan in this thing, and no airholes. It consists of a 150W motor inside a casing of some sort with a bearing at each end, then two grinding wheels.
 
Thanks.
 
Peter
 

03/11/2009 14:19:24
Hi folks,
 
I have a 20 year old Clarke 5" d/e grinder. Ever since I bought it, it has, if used continuously for more than say 15 minutes (guesstimated)  become very hot to the touch. As a result, grinding becomes a long process whilst waiting for it to cool down.
 
The first one I bought also became hot and was returned under warranty, but as this was the same, I have persevered with it. Obviously the fact that it is now 21 years old suggests that my usage of it has been ok and has made it  last, but I would nevertheless like to ask, out of curiosity, if anyone else has the same problem.
 
Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw
Thread: ELECTRONICS
21/10/2009 16:05:42
Hi,
Depending on your requirement, and your speed rating, you could use a cycle computer.
 
I have one bought from Halfords which by careful selection of the wheel diameter (1667 I think) means that the kph reading on the display can be taken as rpm. I did find that there were slight restrictions in that as the speed increased, the display at certain points automatically reduced it's resolution, and that above another speed, it stopped working altogether.
 
Nevertheless, from my point of view it allowed be to roughly calibrate my milling machine.
 
Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw
Thread: Mini Lathe and Milling Machines
21/10/2009 15:51:10
As Circlip says, you need to consider your requirements. My first lathe was a Hobbymat which I quickly found was too small. The Myford was too expensive, and the Boxford I would have liked too big and heavy for one man manouvering. So I bought the Warco 220.
 
Occasionally I do find myself attempting the impossible, eg trying to swing a 6"/150mm length of bar to bore a hole in the end. Or trying to put a piece of angle iron on the faceplate. Both examples catch on the bed because it doesn't have a gap!
 
Just going back to the Hobbymat for a moment, this lathe is rated at 65mm centre height, ie a diameter of 130mm. (At least I think that's waht it is - I'm relying on memeory here.) However, the maximum diameter over the cross-slide is only 50mm/2", and this is what I found very restrictive.
 
So, in addition to length & centre height, you may need to consider diameter over cross-slide. Also top-slide travel (for cutting short tapers), tailstock travel (for drilling)  and possibly cross-slide travel. Mine, at 110mm, seems a bit short with a centre height of 105mm.
 
Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw
Thread: Books for beginers
21/10/2009 15:39:58
Hi,
My first book was "Using the Small Lathe" by L. C. Mason. Although now quite dated, I found it quite useful in my early days, and even now it still does have some interesting ideas in it.
 
Other than that, there is the Workshop Practice Series. Ok all 43 would be a tad expensive, but the initial list could easily be whittled down. Perhaps Workholding in the Lathe (Tubal Cain), Lathework: A Complete Course (Harold Hall), followed by Milling Operations in the Lathe (Tubal Cain) &/or Milling: A Complete Course (Harold Hall).
 
Other than that, Model Engineering: A Foundation Course (Peter Wright) covers a large amount of the necessary work.
 
Good Luck & Enjoy,
 
Peter G. Shaw
Thread: Lathe Backgear
21/10/2009 15:27:35
Hi,
My first lathe was an unmodified Hobbymat - lowest speed of 250rpm. Screwcutting at this speed was, well, frightening. So I made a mandrel handle. I also bought the Essel Engineering slow speed adaptor which gave a slowest speed of 63rpm
 
When I bought my second lathe, I looked at all the specs, including speed, and realized that the more expensive lathes, eg Myford, did indeed have the ultra low speeds of 15rpm or thereabouts whilst cheaper lathes were limited to around 100rpm. Furthermore, the Boxford I would have liked (still do, but the weight & size defeated me) goes down to about 40rpm.
 
Next I started looking at speeds & materials and discovered that the worst case situation requiring these very low speeds was large diameter cast iron.
 
Eventually, I bought the Warco 220 lathe, slowest speed 125rpm, on the basis that a slow speed adaptor would soon be available. It was, but compared to the Essel kit was very messy to use so I returned it. The end result is that for screwcutting I now use a mandrel handle, and I, as yet, have no need to turn large diameter cast iron.
 
Incidently, there is one advantage of a mandrel handle: there is no inertia from the motor (as long as the belts are disconnested) hence one can stop a lot quicker!
 
Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw
 
 
Thread: HELP HELP HELP - Warco 1224 Gear Head Lathe
01/10/2009 13:12:37
Meyrick,
 
Fair comment. I hadn't realised the sheer size of the OP's lathe. It's just that my own lathe, Warco 220, is similar size to the Myford, and has four feet with a hole through. Hence Tubal Cain's jacking screws worked perfectly for me.
 
Peter 
30/09/2009 15:06:58
Might I suggest that instead of using shims, people consider making jacking screws as per Tubal Cain in Chapter 9 (Lathe Alignment) of his book Workholding in the Lathe - WSP 15.

The idea is that these screws can be made regardless of how the lathe is set up, then once installed, adjustment becomes simplicity itself.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw
Thread: Small Milling Machine
30/09/2009 15:00:53
Robin,
 
For me, when I broke the gears, I was faced with either sending it back, or, as I had already partly dismantled to find the problem and hence possibly voiding any warranty, continuing on with the dismantling.
 
Like someone above has said, it's daunting, but then I simply got on with it.
 
I think, provided one is logical about it, it's not difficult to dismantle until you get to the point where the bearings are. This did cause me some problems, and I can only hope that I haven't damaged them.
 
I think next time, because I think there will be a next time, I will think about changing at least the main shaft bearings and devising some method of properly supporting the races as I reinsert. I did tend to use makeshift methods involving bricks,  large hex sockets, bits of tube and wood. Plus the obligatory 2lb & 1lb hammers!
 
And by the way, this is the first milling machine I have ever used.

Also, the MiniMill also comes with an individual test report.

Phil Ashman's comment re lubrication reminds me that somewhere I have seen something about using a sprayon (spray in??) grease for this type of machine. The write up suggested raising the head above the column until the inside of the head could be seen and then spraying. Perhaps one or two convenient holes could be drilled somewhere instead.
 
Finally, Frank Dolman comments that I have come to a conclusion that is specific to myself. In my very first post on this subject, I did indeed say that I would relate my experiences.

Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw
 
ps. My very first line was " I see no-one else has come up with anything so I'll just relate my experiences." And that was after 4 days of no replies to David. If nothing else, I have managed to trigger off some more replies! So I've done some good!
 
Thread: Filing Machine
29/09/2009 14:17:37
Hi,
 
MEW4, MEW 12 & WSP31 (Useful Workshop Tools/Stan Bray) all caontain details of filing machines.
 
Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw

Thread: Small Milling Machine
29/09/2009 14:11:09
Frank,
 
Because I broke mine a few weeks after purchase, I obtained (under warranty) replacement plastic gears from Warco, however at about the same time there were a number of articles in MEW about improvements to the X1 lathe, and other equipment, As a result, I decided to incorporate some of these into the MiniMill at the same time.
 
My problem is that a) it is a hobby, and thus doesn't rate overhighly in the general scale of things; and b) I get involved in doing other things, both hobby type, and for the house & grandchildren, hence I haven't yet finished the repair/overhaul.
 
It may be of interest to note that like other people, I have found casting residue where it shouldn't be!
 
As to the actual gears, this does involve a major dismantling to get at them, eg (from memory) remove motor & controller, remove spring return, remove top stop, lift head upwards and off the slide, remove slow and fast vertical feed mechanism, remove speed change lever, remove rear of head (it's in two parts), remove intermediate shaft (requires knocking out of bearings, and finally remove main shaft/spindle (also requires knocking out of bearings). 
 
Then replace and rebuild in reverse order.
 
The Arc Euro Trade metal gear set does appear to be a direct replacement. I haven't tried them for a fit, but they measure exactly the same as the original plastic gears and so I have no reason to believe they will not work. I have to say that I only found out about these after I had obtained and fitted the replacement plastic gears, so they are now in stock just in case. I'm loth to replace until forced into it because of the difficulty in knocking out and replacing the bearings.
 
Yes it is true that there are belt drive conversions available for the X2, and by all accounts they are quieter as well, however, until I see that someone has successfully converted a MiniMill, I will leave well alone, the reason being that although the MiniMill does appear to be based on the X2, there may well be, in fact definitely are, slight differences between the two mills, eg the spring return system for the vertical motion, and, I think, the location of the speed gear change handle. Furthermore, I have a general dislike of making changes which cannot be reversed in the event of unforeseen problems.
 
For what it's worth, I do now think I may have made a mistake in buying this mill. One of my reasons was because of lifting limitations as a sole worker, however after I had bought the maxhine, there was an article in MEW where someone bought an X3 or similar, and dismantled it to get it into place - something that I never though of. I did want the biggest I could comfortably handle, and had the idea of dismantling to install occurred, then I may well have gone for a bigger machine. Having said that, I do not have any reason to criticise the MiniMill - I went into it with my eyes open, and it does seem to do what it is supposed to do.
 
Hope this helps, Frank.
 
Regards,
 
Peter G. Shaw.
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