Member postings for Brytech

This is an example of wear that all Colchester Lathes suffer from. My own Master 2500 fortunately had the feed pinion replaced a few months before I purchased it so it wasn’t an expense that I had suffer. However, what owners don’t often check is what wear has occurred to the feed shaft. When i checked the feed shaft on my machine the reduction in diameter was in the region of 0.025“ over a 12” length near to the chuck. I therefore reasoned that the bore of the pinion that was replaced before I obtained the machine was equally or more excessively worn. That should be considered when just simply milling a slot for a new key in the existing badly worn pinion. Incidentally I seem to recall that the surface of the pinion was hardened

Close examination of my feed shaft also revealed excessive wear in the keyway of the feed shaft. So excessive that, because of the wear found on the diameter, I decided to replace the shaft. Don’t get concerned about that though because the shaft is easy to duplicate. I bought a length of suitably sized silver steel which I turned the ends of on the lathe & milled the keyway on the Bridgeport.

I reasoned that a new key running in a worn keyway on a shaft that is undersized is going to be more prone to wear & runs the risk of earlier failure than happened previously. Therefore a worn shaft, running in a worn bore is going to be even more prone.

When it comes to selective carburising hardening of surfaces another method is to coat the surfaces to be left soft with copper sulphate solution. The costing of copper sulphate prevents the absorption of the carburising compound & thus retains the properties of the original steel. You can even apply it to a small area of a surface if you will need to drill a hole in a particular place after hardening. Carburised hardened surfaces can also be tempered after hardening to reduce the tendency of the glass hard surface to chip or otherwise break up under load.

The tool and die company where I served my apprenticeship had an extensive heat treatment department that dealt with hardening & tempering steels of all grades. From low carbon up to & including exotic tool steels. All used in the manufacture of automotive body press tooling. Low carbon steel parts to be carburised would be packed in carburising compound in metal boxes & placed in an oven for specific times depending on the depth of case required. Those jobs were nearly always left overnight, often soaking for several hours if a deep case was required. Most, if not all parts were tempered afterwards. Examples were guide plates for the large draw dies used to form a car door or trunk lid from a flat sheet. They would have a case depth specified of I think 0.025”. That included an allowance for finish grinding after heat treatment. I think that the opposite side of the plate was left soft by the application of copper sulphate.

As an aside, copper sulphate can also be used instead of “marking blue” to highlight scribed lines on steel. There is a simple method to remove it after the wok is complete but exactly how has disappeared from my memory unfortunately. It is more durable than ”marking blue”.

Edited By Brytech on 22/12/2022 15:34:43

The drawings are no longer available folks. Just goes to show the power of Social Media.

Alan

Hi Everyone, I have a full set of construction drawings as supplied by Model Engineering Services in very good condition. I built my machine years ago & have long since sold it on. Now the roll of drawings need either to find a new home or to keep the appointment with the shredder. They are fully readable so it would seem to be a real shame to destroy them. Does anyone want them for the cost of the postage? Alternatively, if you live within a reasonable distance of Central Bedfordshire, they are also available for collection. Please PM me.

Alan

Thanks Neil for the explanation which wasn’t a reason that I’d considered, but does seem to be logical

Several responders have used terms such as annoying, one described it as as a PITA & I have to agree with those sentiments. Is there a longer term plan to improve the situation? I’m inclined to think that having found a large number of new members, you would like to keep them. If the situation doesn’t improve though, I wonder if they’re going to stick around. As has been mentioned, it doesn’t seem to happen on other websites & probably will cause some to jump ship & go elsewhere.

Alan

It’s happened again. I posted the last comment, went away to look at the newspaper headlines before coming back just now to refresh the latest posts page. Now I’ve had to log back in again in order to make this post.

I'm beginning to wonder if it’s worth the bother ☹️

Alan

Edited By Brytech on 22/06/2020 09:32:42

I’ve just opened my iPad less than 9 hours after posting my first entry, refreshed the latest posts page & it required me to log in again. After posting last night I cleared the cache on the iPad again then re-logged in again but it’s made no difference. I’ve not logged in on another device or even viewed on another device so it’s a problem with this website & it looks like I’m not an isolated case either.

Alan

For some reason the website has lately taken it upon itself to log me out if I’m away from the site.

For years I have always kept the site open & logged in on a permanently open tab on my iPad & it always used to stay open for weeks on end without logging me out. However, for the last few weeks I’ve been finding that I open the tab & I have to log in again. It’s now got to the point where I log in, read a few posts then close the iPad & when I open it again an hour later I find that I’m logged out again. Have you changed the security policy?

I have cleared the cache & deleted cookies on my iPad, I’m not accessing the site simultaneously on more than one device. I have ticked the ‘remember me box’ too, although for some reason that has now become unaccessible. All that I’m doing is reading the site for half an hour then closing my device. It’s really frustrating having to constantly log in, especially so when it didn’t used to be necessary.

Why is it happening now?

Alan

Hi Wilson,

Although its nearly 2 years since creating the post, my machines are not yet fully refurbed. I have so far disassembled both, cleaned, paint-stripped, filled & repainted both sets of castings. However, I am yet to reassemble both machines & get them running. Consequently, I am approaching the stage where I will be investigating the length of belts that will be needed.

If you have the machines complete then calculating the required belt length will not be difficult. As a starting point you could use the formula of: - Belt length = (0.5 x motor pulley circumference) + (0.5 x driven pulley circumference) + (2.0 x center distance) as a starting point. Also bear in mind that you may need more than one belt length to allow the use of all the different pulleys available.

Kind regards,

Alan

Yes I’ve always wondered what the composition of High Quality Steel is.

Howard, there have been & still are CSCT taps & dies of extremely questionable quality available for sale. When I was in the business, the firm that I worked for manufactured their own HSSGT products but purchased CSCT equipment from outside suppliers. The products purchased were subject to extreme scrutiny before being sold & there were instances where products were returned to the manufacturer rather than being sold to the client. In those days CSCT products came from U.K. manufacturers but today I guess the majority of both CSCT & HSSGT products are sourced from the Far East. Nothing wrong in that because most of the quality today is good. Most, the emphasis is on that word.

I would recommend that if you are producing something that needs to be accurate & possibly repeatable, or in a tougher material then you should bite the bullet & use HSSGT. If however you are cleaning or repairing threads, or some one off parts in Mild Steel then CSCT is adequate for your needs providing that you remember that the thread fit will certainly be a looser one.

Alan

Gary,

From your description it seems that you are possibly trying to cut a tough stainless steel part with a carbon steel die. I used to work as a sales engineer for a British manufacturer of all types of threading tools & have seen this situation many times when visiting clients to discuss their threading problems.

Taps & dies are essentially manufactured from either carbon (CSCT) or high speed steel (HSSGT). What’s the difference you may ask? Well it’s price for a start. If you look at any tap manufacturers or sellers price list including Tracy Tools & The Tap & Die Company’s you’ll notice in the small print that HSS is available for an additional charge which from memory is at least 150%. For that reason most of us will always opt for Carbon Steel, the cheapest & in most cases more than adequate for our needs.

What are the differences between taps & dies made from the two materials? Firstly the abbreviation CSCT stands for Carbon Steel Cut Thread & it refers to a tap that is to all intents & purposes produced with a single point tool or screwcut just as you would on your lathe. HSSGT is an abbreviation for High Speed Steel Ground Thread & refers to a thread that is produced by grinding using a wheel dressed to the thread form. The materials that are used are different also. Carbon Steel is easier to work & is essentially similar to silver steel & it is hardened & tempered after machining similar to how we do it in our workshops. HSSGT though is another matter; it hardens & is tempered at much higher temperatures & difficult to do in the home workshop! HSSGT taps are ground from a finished ground & fluted blank, the thread form is the last feature to be produced. CSCT dies are produced with a tap, HSSGT dies are thread form ground, just like a tap but obviously internally ground rather than external. There is still more to it though.

What your 150% premium for a HSSGT tap also buys is a tap or die produced to tighter tolerances & it is thus capable of producing internal threads to tighter tolerances. CSCT taps are also made by reputable manufacturers to a tolerance but the tolerance band is much wider. Dies are also produced to a tolerance but because a split die is slightly adjustable the physical size of the thread produced can vary. With a solid die however the die is manufactured to a different tolerance. In all cases taps & dies from reputable manufacturers will have the tolerance band stamped, engraved or etched onto the shank of the tap or the face of the die. I can no longer recall what the tolerance bands are unfortunately.

How does all that I have written apply to your problem you may well ask? Hopper has summed it up very well in that you probably need to us HSSGT, but unfortunately HSSGT may not be the solution in itself. Tapping & threading lubricants have part to play in the process & help to improve the quality of the cut thread in most cases.

The Tap & Die Company have been around for many years. As they say on the website, since 1978.

I Hope that the above is of interest to you & to others who have possibly wondered about the difference between cheap & expensive threading tools. There’s more to them than meets the eye at first glance.

Alan

Many thanks for your help with this Ian.

Alan

Thanks Ian,

Can you give me the diameters of the pulleys please? I believe that I am missing the bigger ones also.

Alan

Hi Ian,

That was quick. I’m primarily interested in the electrics. I guess that that the original components are no longer available & probably less than desirable in this modern age. Did you use an inverter? I have a 3 phase connection available for it in the workshop so single to 3 phase isn’t an issue. Where did you obtain the switchgear etc from please? Also sources for the flat belts etc.

Kind regards,

Alan

About 15 years ago when visiting a local scrap merchant which also dealt in machine tools I came across 2 Herbert Type B machines for sale at ridiculously low prices. Unable to resist a bargain, I think that I purchased both for about a tenner for the two, I took them home with the intention of restoring them & putting them to good use in the workshop. However, as happened with a lot of things, work & family pressures deflected me from my course & it is only now, after retiring, that I can see my way clear to doing something about them in the coming weeks or months.

I have seen in the albums that member Ian Parkin posted in 2015 when he uploaded a series of photos of the restoration of a Pollard 9FX machine which appears to be identical in every way to the Herbert Type B. I believe that it was also re-badged & sold under the name plate of several other manufacturers. Has anyone else either got a similar machine or has had one in the past? I am interested in the work that Ian did to his machine but cannot find any forum posting devoted to it. I have Emailed [email protected] today but being a Sunday I don’t expect to hear from them immediately.

Any information will be gratefully received.

Kind regards,

Alan

Diane, your reply deals with problems relating to print copies of ME. Does that mean that the problem with none availability of the download for ME4542 is sorted? I ask because as I previously wrote I received my print copy before the bank holiday weekend but have yet to see the download available to me. I doubt very much that it is caused by a problem with the Pocketmags APP on my iPad because I was able to download MEW246 a few days ago. There is clearly also a problem with the online availability & that needs to be fixed.

Alan

I received my print copy of ME over a week ago now & I did enquire as to the whereabouts of the download via the "contact us" facility within the app. I received a prompt reply saying that the magazine was late & would be uploaded shortly but that was on the Friday before the bank holiday & I've heard nothing since. I received my download of MEW yesterday afternoon but as yet no ME 4542. I to have been invited to buy the online copy of 4542 when I searched for it within the pocketmags app but its not available to me yet as a download.

Ok its late! Its forgiveable once in a while, but what isn't is that there's been no communication about it. That needs to improve.

I too find the pocketmags app to be less than satisfactory. Prior to using it I used the Newsstand APP on the iPad & found that to be atrocious, causing the iPad to freeze regularly. An enquiry prompted a response from Neil advising use of the pocketmags app & that has proved to be an improvement but it's still less than perfect. The iPad still freezes & has to be reset (soft reset) but it still reoccurred again a week or so later. I did do a hard reset also but that only improved matters for a short while so the app isn't perfect by any means.

An Update gentlemen. I've downloaded the pocket mags app & the latest issue has loaded. Many thanks for the advice.

I've got an iPad Air with up to date IOS. I'm not using the pocket mags app so I'll have to try that. Many thanks for the input everyone. If there are anymore ideas out there I'm interested to hear them.

Has anyone else had this happen? I could not access Model Engineer from the Newstand. It's not the first time that it's happened to me. On the several occasions in the past when it's stooped working I've had to delete the App & reload it which meant loosing ALL my digital content & then reloading it again. Only problem is that this time the "work around" hasn't worked. I've tried it several times & each time the app is reloaded all I see in the Newstand is a black rectangle with Model Engineer in the middle of it. If I it touch it to enter the title it doesn't go anywhere. I'm really beginning to question whether or not the extra charge on the subscription for digital access is worth the money the App is not reliable nor really fit for purpose.