Member postings for DutchDan

Hi David, if you go tot he for sale or wanted section there is a 'place an ad' link in the top right.

For a wanted ad it's here:
**LINK**

Jack, for me the easiest way to get it out was to stick something through the drill chuck and tap it out. Might not be able to with yours though.

Dave, I do like having the right tool for the job, but nothing beyond reason. I agree with you that industrial spec is overkill, so like you I'll be shooting for the middle ground. Buy cheap buy twice does ring true, but spending a premium is not always the best solution.

I'll just figure out what areas to skimp on and where not too as one does over time. That way I have learned not to buy cheap paint or drills for instance, but cheap electronic components are usually fine for my purposes. You live and you learn.

Dave, one of the things I'll be getting is an ER32 collet set, it will be useful for both the mill and lathe. I'm looking at getting one from a reputable brand as I'll be using them for a good long while trying to get accurate results. Any recommendations as to a good supplier? I'd be happy to pay more for something made here in the UK if the quality warrants it.

On the chuck, I'd be happy to try and true it up myself if it was a second hand or something, but as this came new from the supplier it'll just go straight back. And to be fair to Warco, they have been very good so far. I emailed that my oiling can was leaking from the plunger late afternoon, and I had a new working one in the post 2 days later.

Wow, so much information. I'm already learning lots on here, thanks for the input everyone.

Martin, I don't think that would really make any difference with my measurement. I've measure the arbor which is (as good as) colinear with my spindle. That means the runout will either be caused by there being an angle, or lateral shift between the axes of rotation of the chuck and spindle. If I turn the chuck upside down and clamp it to a bar in a collet I'd be measuring the exact same thing, but with the added error of the collet introduced. Or am I missing something here?

I think I can draw the following conclusions:
- The chuck should be returned as the runout is unacceptably large
- Drilling with a chuck is not terribly accurate, although a pricier chuck is a little better.
- Drilling with a collet should be better still, but limited in drill sizes
- Turning a holder to the exact size of the drill will get you the best accuracy, but will probably hit the point of diminishing returns.
- Drilling is not that accurate due to inherent limitations of the process, if you want an accurate hole you should bore/ream/lap.

All being said and done, this is already a massive step up from my cheap silverline pillar drill that tries to walk off every time I turn it on above ~500RPM!

Wow those Rohm chucks look nice, but range from 80 to 150 quid.

Emgee, I did measure the arbor which barely wiggles my needle at ~0.005mm. It's definitely the chuck.

You could possibly try contacting the manufacturer. They may have a spare stashed away in storage somewhere, or if not, be able to supply you with spec/drawings of the gear to get a new one manufactured.

Niko, interesting link, thanks for that. Not as good on the runout as expected on those chucks.

Hopper, thanks for confirming, just trying to get a feel for what's acceptable as I lack the experience.

Together with my mill, I ordered a drill chuck from Warco.

I went to have a go at drilling for the first time yesterday and noticed a visible wobble on the chuck itself. I took it off the arbor, gave everything a very thorough clean and re-seated everything, but to no avail.

I put a DI against a 6mm drill in the chuck and measured a runout of ~0.4 mm. I then re-tried with a bigger (12mm) drill, which made matters a little better. I took a series of measurements, taking the drill out and re-chucking it in between which gave me a average of 0.315mm over 4 readings (0.24-0.37). I also tested the arbor which had about 0.005mm runout, so pretty good.

Another chuck I got from the same supplier had a much better runout of 0.11 mm using the same technique.

I've put some videos up on my drive of the actual measurements in case I did something strange. But the wobble is visible.

Measuring the arbor

Measuring the drill (6mm drill)

Now I will be returning the chuck with the big run-out, but I'm not sure about the other one. If I need to drill very precisely I'll use a collet. Which leads me to the question: what is acceptable runout for a drill chuck?

Thanks Thor.

Howard, I've been looking at getting some ventilation. I'll probably even hook up a powered fan as it turns out cutting oil can get a bit smoky. I currently just have the door open which is fine with this weather.

I'll probably put a lower vent on the back of the shed (south facing) and a higher one on the other side. I may be building a small awning over the shed door to keep the weather off, so will see about putting it under that. Lower vent on the south side since that'll be the inlet as, like I've learnt recently, damp air is lighter!

Vic, I have a few things lined up. I'm first making my way through Harold Hall's lathework and milling courses. I've also bought myself material to make a machinist's hammer and then (a little more ambitious) some stainless to make a ThisOldTony style tap wrench.

After that I have a Stuart 10H kit I got for my birthday from my girlfriend, after which I may build a stirling engine from scratch.

Ultimately I'm always building things, now I can just do it out of metal, and not just wood and plastic.

Hopper, the painted walls do add a lot of lightness to the room. The flooring is actually the cheapest vinyl I could find. it has actually held up very well to me moving stuff about it. The advantage of the vinyl over the wooden floor is that spills just sit on top of it, rather than soaking into the wood. Very easy to clean.

The workbench is extremely solid. The oak top weighs over 100kg and the frame must be just shy of that. All screwed to the walls, so a very nice damping mass. The lathe is currently just sat there, not bolted down. I want to design some sort of adjustable insert for it. Epoxy one side into the worktop and have another bit that attaches to the lathe that I can raise lower to level out the lathe. I also want the lathe a little higher to make it easier to clean underneath. Ideally I'd adjust the drip tray to be removable, as my first go at cleaning up the swarf last night was a it of a pain.

The 290V usually comes with a drawer on the stand, but I wanted it on my workbench, so I'll have to devise something myself.

And the workshop is operational.

More work to be done on the second workbench and an actual stand for the mill, but for now I'm making some chips first.

Advise I've read suggests placing one vent high and one low, the moist air is heavier and should exit from the lower vents. Not sure how much of a difference it'll make, but probably cheap enough to be worth a shot.

I have not sat still!

I finished welding up the stands, placed them and put the top on:

It is very very solid, and the top is perfectly level in the x, and within 0.5 in the y without any further work.
I then finished it with some osmo. It looks lovely, shame it's mostly covered by lathe.

My dolly was completed, rated for 200kg/wheel. Turns out it came in very handily.

In preparation for delivery yesterday I removed the fencing between my and my neighbour's backyard, as she has access from the street (well, we put a bunch of OSB offcuts across the grass). The driver was kind enough to help me manoeuvre the boxes across the grass, up a little ramp I built an onto my neighbour's decking.

I then proceeded to open the crates and remove the sides of the boxes. I took the chuck, splash guard and tailstock off the lathe and with a little effort and my girlfriend operating the pump used the crane to put it on my dolly. It was then moved into the shed with lots of effort. I'm lucky I had the strength to lift the lath as long as it was one end at a time as one of the wheels slipped off the ramp and into the soil... Finally I engine hoisted it onto it's place on the bench.

I then unpacked the mill, but this time prepared the way to the shed a bit more thoroughly. I also drove some long screws into the plate it was mounted to to affix it to the dolly. I used some sand bags and old concrete posts, and this move was much smoother.

The lathe will have to move some more as I make some tweaks to the swarf tray. It normally comes on a stand, but I opted to do without and build my own as I figured I could build something more solid. As a result I have a swarf tray that's for a different lathe, and has holes in the wrong places. Once I get the mill in place and set up I'll use that to modify the plate, and I'll get some threaded rod to attach it firmly to the bench. I'll also need to mount the DRO to my frame/shelf rather than the machine as the shelf gets in the way. I also had to remove the chuck guard (who uses them anyway? Stay away from the spinny bits!). I gave the lathe a quick spin last night, but will clean everything and re-lubricate before actually using it. The mill will go in place somewhere this week.

After all this I was absolutely knackered, but also very satisfied. Took about 3,5 hours from the lorry showing up to this:

Note the stand for the mill is temporary, but should do alright for now. Will just bolt it to the wall before putting the mill on.

edit: clicking images should now link to my hosting sowing them a little bigger.

Edited By DutchDan on 15/03/2022 12:02:42

In between the terrible weather I've slowly been progressing.

I've finished cutting all the steel for the left workbench:

And have started cleaning them up for welding (if it ever stops being so windy)

Which is always a lot of work, but sadly a part of it (or maybe I should just switch to stick!)

I've now completed all the flanges that will be used to connect the stands to the top and the back wall.

I would've finished the flanges that will attach the cross bars mounted between the uprights. I got a set of 8.5mm cobalt drills from an amazon supplier for about 2 quid each. Didn't expect much for the price, but they appear to be ground by someone who only had a vague notion of what a drill looks like. Gave it a try anyway and they performed as horribly as expected. I've got a refund and ordered a (hopefully) proper drill from FFX.

In the meantime I started thinking a bit more about getting the machinery in place. Having heavy machines is one thing, and although I've lifted 205kg off the ground once, I'm going to need some help for the machines. Looking at rental prices for engine hoists I decided to just buy a cheap model that folds away, and recoup my investments in a few uses.

I also started looking at dollies that were rated safely above the weight I'll be moving (uneven tiles outside!) and found them to pricey. So I ordered 4 wheels rated for 200kg each online and cut some steel cutoffs from a previous project to length to fashion into a dolly:

Finally I have done some shuffling in my budget, and decided that I'd buy a lathe and mill at the same time with bare minimum tooling and get more tooling as time carries on. I'm starting out with the minimum I'll need to work through the exercises in Mr. hall's books which should take me a while. The next step after that will be to try my hand at the Stuart 10H!

I'd originally planned to get the lathe first and spend a fair bit on a milling slide to tide me over. My bonus over last year came in and was a bit more than expected, so I decided to go this route. I'll be placing the order with Warco for the Wm290V Lathe and the WM18B mill. I'd honestly rather have gotten older machines like a big colchester and a bridgeport or something along those lines. After much consideration I decided to go for these imports for a few primary reasons:
- These are pretty much the biggest machines I can fit in the space I have.
- At a weight of ~250kg I'll be able to move them relatively easily.
- I just don't have the experience to buy an old machine and tell good from a dud.

Part of the long term plan is to move to a more rural location in a decade or so in my early forties. Part of that will be a properly sized workshop with access (I'm removing some fencing and going through the neighbour's yard this time) and by that time I will get some true big-boy toys.

That being said, both these machines, from what I'm reading, are quite good. I've looked at the various suppliers and read around loads both here on the forum and elsewhere, and I reckon they will serve me well.

Hoping to plan delivery w/c 14th of March, so I'll have to crack on with building the benches.

Thanks guys, I'll have to give Freecad another go. Sounds like they made quite a bit of progress.

Thor, an ender 3 can be had for under 200 euros now. Unlike some of the more expensive machines it's made to a price, so you may have to tinker with it a little. But I've had good experiences with mine. Someone of your skill level should have no problems. I'd just recommend making sure the bed isn't warped at that'll be harder to fix, and the quality control on these machines can be lacking.

It's been very windy here, we've lost a pane of glass on the greenhouse which is laying (shattered) about 10 feet away. Hopefully that will be the full extent of the damage as we only have one spare pane. Fingers crossed.

Dave,

I gave FreeCAD a very thorough trial about two years ago as I'm a big fan of free (as in freedom) software. At the time it crashed on me often enough that the whole experience was very frustrating and made me switch to Fusion360.

I'm keen to switch away from Fusion once FreeCAD is mature enough, and seeing this it might be time for another try. How stable is FreeCAD for you now? Any frustrating experiences, or does it tend to work well for you?

Thanks,

Daniel

Thank for your insight John, very informative.

An, if the device you built works to the expected standard within the parameters you desire it is obviously a well designed tool.

Very interesting, I happened to be reading that same hackaday article last night John.

It looks like the steppers should be decently accurate in microstepping mode with a good driver as longs as they're not under load. So if you move the load without cutting, then put a brake on, perform the cutting operation, break off, move and so forth you should get decent accuracy.

To be truly accurate at higher resolution it seems like you'd have to move to closed loop control with a good encoder and controller. That'd be the next step up though. I think when I design my version I'll build it with a direct drive from a stepper and a manual brake for starters (primarily planning to use it for cutting gears).

It'll be fun to dust off some of the control theory I was taught decades ago and see if I can build a closed loop controller for a DC motor. We worked with one in uni to learn about PID controllers. It was controlled through matlab and we manually tuned the PID. The only prohibitive thing there is the high cost of a (good) rotary encoder).

Hi An other, thanks for the detailed information.

I'll be building something along those lines somewhere in the future as I think I can make something easier to use than a dividing head for a lot less money.

Could you point me in the direction of the magnetic brake you used please?