Member postings for Martin Watson 1

Don't forget new ones need setting up as well, they do not work their best straight out of the box.

Don't waste the guarantee by buying too early, I did that with a roll/bend/shear 3 way machine that was very poor.

If you are not experienced, I would consel against buying an old machine, especially from a E auction site, where the chances of being able to examine it are small or non existent.

And as recent Forum posts have shown, there are scammers out there waiting for the unwary.

An old machine will lack the features "normal" to more modern machines, may be worn or damaged, and could have parts missing. Finding replacements can be problematical, even IF a part can be found. It may be even more worn or damaged than the part that you want to replace. Or your machine may be a Mk1, and the part, when it arrives turns out to be for a Mk2A. and so either will not fit

(They upgraded / changed the gears, sizes or threads? May even have inverted things like dovetails)

It might even be a total hybrid, an All Spare Parts, assembled by someone whose only skill is making a good paint job! Maybe misassembled / maladjusted.

A bargain perhaps, if you know what you are doing, but an expensive mistake if you don't.

Restoring an old machine to running order, and using it can be a very satisfying part of the hobby. But not necessarily for the inexperienced, impatient or impecunious.

Fantastic work has been done on old machines. There are folk on the Forum producing excellent work on machines that are a century old. A former working colleague can produce work on a pre 1920 machine that I lack the skill to match.with a 2003 one. But that is my shortcoming!

You might even end up in the Catch 22 situation of needing the machine that is pieces to make the very part that needs replacement!

A friend bought a 80 year old machine. Basically good, but it would not turn parallel. The problem was solved, using my lathe to make repair part.

Having helped lightly repair / restore a few oldies, for friends, I have been fortunate in having my own machines available to make / modify / restore parts. Without such facilities life could have been difficult.

Caveat emptor!

Howard

Both of these lathes are overpriced as always witnessed by the number of watchers on buy it now items. It's a good measure of how many people can't quite believe the asking price.

The advantage of old stuff like this is you won't blow a circuit board or smash a plastic gear by being heavy handed.

The Ames is worth £150, the York is too small to do much with plus the headstock bearings are crude

Unless you are in a desparate hurry to make a vital part to repair your ventillator hang on for a few months and assess the market and range of lathes available. Also means you will be able to go and pick it up unless the vendor is willing to courier it. Just put an area related search on ebay and as each one comes up check it's spec on Lathes.co.uk and observe and spreadsheet its selling price. Make a pact with yourself not to be tempted to bid. (bit like going on the waggon or a diet).

Both obsolete, rare, and difficult to get parts for, and if they don't come with a complete set of chucks and tooling, or need rectification work, that will be a problem, and any major repairs will need another lathe to do them on, plus the skills...

The York looks reasonable value assuming it is not worn out - impossible to tell just from pictures - but it is a very small lathe so may not suit your requirements. It only appears to have one chuck, and I would guess that it has a direct drive from a motor behind the back board and no countershaft, so it will run rather too fast for some model engineering jobs. Not too difficult to put that right, and chucks and so on can be found, but it will be a steep learning curve and may get expensive for a very basic lathe. It depends what sort of work you want to do.

If you are a beginner it is difficult to assess a used machine. I think it would be preferable to spend a bit more money and start with a new mini lathe from, for example, Arc, Chester or Warco - perhaps not perfect machines but good value, not worn out before you start, and they have a good knowledge base, and readily available spares and accessories. Also, try and find someone who can show you some basic techniques, and how to use it safely.

I'm going to leave it there, as others will no doubt like to comment.

Both interesting antique machines, but in my opinion not really suitable for a beginner.

No comment as not my type of lathe.

BIN prices may be a hope of selling at a good ( high) price - likely put on as an auction, next week.🙂. Not always the case, but happens quite a lot. Potential buyers (apart from perhaps the one who pays the BIN price) wait for the item to be relisted as an auction.

Bit of a job to go and look at anything at the moment as it's not exactly essential travel.

As I spent a lot of time sourcing, specifying and buying machinery in a past life and latterly in the Far East here's a bit of information of what goes on out there in regards to the machines available to us in the UK

Most of the imported cheaper manual machines we buy for our hobby are made out in the provinces in pretty basic factories where the working conditions and methods of manufacture we haven't been seen over here for many many years. A lot of their production is for the home market. These machines are then purchased by companies such as Weiss and other brands you may be familiar with. They take in the machines and effectively QC them and upgrade them with such things as CE wiring, better control boards, safety features that are not usually required in the home market addition features etc.,

The machines can be branded e.g. to names of the UK importers and even have importer added branding features such as badges and paint colour. With all this we must understand that the original manufacture is not high tech or particularly to a high accuracy. I have been in factories in Nanjing and seen most of the UK imported mini lathes being worked on on the same line but painted up for different UK importers.

There are always exceptions and Sieg is one of them as they manufacture their machinery in their own factory in Shanghai from start to finish and in that way the quality can be maintained and be better, thus the higher price because labour rates and company costs are higher in the Cities.

So it depends on your budget, the UK suppliers support and access to spare parts which invariably you will need, usually the electronics and motors.

Unfortunately the last UK manufacturer of Manual Lathes ceased production a a year or so ago (Boxford). To give an example a Boxford 330 with a useful amount of accessories and tooling last cost upwards of £14K the Chinese copies of this lathe come fully kitted at around £4K. The brand names (Colchester & Harrison) as that's all they are now are manufactured out in Taiwan and are the same lathe with one or the other name on them. Engineering standards and quality are usually a lot higher with machines from Taiwan.

I too was seriously tempted by the sc4, but went for the SC3 instead and have to say I am seriously impressed by it. Having machined a variety of materials from Delrin to stainless steel, including screwcutting I have found it to be a very competent small lathe. It holds a size well, cuts parallel and the markings on the handwheels are accurate enough to rely on. Being a professional machinist I have found the machine enjoyable to use and it can produce very accurate work.

As for Ketan and Arc Euro they are extremely knowledgeable about the products they supply and are there to help. My experience of both the lathe and the company have been first class and I would not hesitate to recommend both the machine and the company to anyone.

You know you want it, jump in with the reassurance of excellent backup and support. Oh and delivery was surprisingly quick too.

‘Ad a meal is off the menu, then?🙂

The SC4 looks to be a much more capable machine. I have no experience of them apart from twiddling the knobs and wheels at ARC.