Member postings for Diy Addict

Thanks Graham, I really appreciate your help. Will report back here once it arrives.

Paul

Just checked, and there's no end float. I'm pretty sure no-one's had it apart before (As a former service engineer, you tend to spot the signs!). So still a mystery at this stage.

But I've found a used FB2 spindle on Ebay US, and bought it! The supplier won't post to the UK so it's going to take a convoluted route involving relatives.

Assuming it's not knackered, I'm hoping it'll fit straight into my clone, so we'll soon see how similar they are to the real thing.

If that all works (gulp), I'll be able to make further investigations into my spindle on the bench.

Edited By Diy Addict on 08/07/2023 16:58:34

This is a good question. As far as I know, they're almost identical (See the lathes.co.uk page), and one might reasonably assume that Emco had some involvement in the clones once they started to produce the FB2s in Taiwan. Indeed, underneath the Axminster White, my mill is painted red - gloss, not primer.

But there are differences. For example the spindle is extended on my Axminster clone, with a thread to take Myford collets. Really annoying as they're too expensive to be of any use, and just has the effect of making the cut an inch or so further from the bearing than it otherwise would be.

More pertinently, they seem to use the same general bearing arrangement, but I don't know whether they use the same custom bearings that Emco used. For example, are the upper thrust bearings the same custom deep-grooved bearings, or just two angular contact bearings?

According to lathes.co.uk, the Taiwanese clones are very well made, and perform well, but I suspect they didn't go to the efforts that Emco did in matching the bearings to the spindle. I think this could be a factor in the play I'm getting.

Paul

Edited By Diy Addict on 08/07/2023 12:29:03

Thanks Graham,

I didn't want to make my initial post too long by detailing my measuring technique - sorry my next post overlapped!

I have an update which gives me a little more hope.

Keeping the indicator at the bottom end of the spindle (mounted on the head, quill locked). I tried pressing the top end of the spindle radially. Keeping light pressure on the top end, I then pressed the bottom end as before, and the indicator barely moved.

This makes me wonder if the top bearings are causing the issue somehow?

Paul

Keeping the indicator still and rotating the spindle for each measurement, the total radial play varies between 0.03mm and 0.04mm, implying a slightly oval spindle. But it's never less than 0.03mm. (Yes, the indicator base was mounted on the head, with the quill locked)

I also have an older 'Mentor' mill head on my lathe. Its radial play is barely measurable: < 0.01mm.

So I'm now thinking the play in the FB2 clone needs addressing. Unfortunately, it doesn't use tapered bearings - just a needle roller cage acting on the spindle itself at the bottom.

The parts are no longer available, so I see the following options:

1. Find a used spindle
2. Lap the spindle and make a bronze bearing, as suggested by Ray Griffin in the thread you linked to.
3. Try and find oversized needles?

I'd be grateful for any other options. In the meantime, I'm going to see if I can adapt the mentor to fit the FB2 mill - not straightforward as the column diameters are different.

Paul

I'd really appreciate help from those who know and use the EMCO FB2 milling machine.

I've had an Axminster clone for about a year now, and it seems to do impressive work for it's size. However, I have difficulty tramming or centring, because of radial play in the spindle.

Putting an indicator at the spindle, as close to the head as I can, gives me play of 0.04mm if I press in either direction with my thumb.

The top of the spindle (where you insert an allen key for collets etc) has a play of around 0.07mm. I guess that's to be expected given the top bearing arrangement.

I'm wondering whether the play is due to wear, or whether it was always like that - the mill is in excellent overall condition and doesn't seem to have had much use. There's very little play in the slides. Maybe the Taiwanese factory didn't take quite the same care that Emco did when selecting/matching the needle roller bearing to the spindle?

So my questions are:

1. Is 0.04mm excessive?
2. Should I attempt to do anything about it?
3. If so, what are my options?

Thanks in advance, Paul

Oops, yes you did originally say you had an S7 and a Chinese lathe - I'd forgotten.

I must say I've really enjoyed using 5C collets, now that I have most of the common sizes. I started out with ER collets, then Burnerd Multi size, but I often work with quite stubby pieces that are too short to go in them. The 5C works great and has plenty of grip without having to be excessively tightened.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

Paul

I'd be interested to see how you get on. On mine, doing a one-off adjustment with gentle taps, it was perfectly true. But when I took it off, then put it on again, it was no longer accurate. I think this was due to my Myford 254s not having a 'proper' D1-3 system. You just replace the cam studs with threaded ones, then it fits to the spindle with three nuts. I found that tightening the nuts affected the accuracy - some kind of flex happening somewhere. Hence I went ahead with the grub screws.

Assuming you have a proper D1-3, presumably the tightening will be more consistent and you'll get better accuracy just after one initial setup.

Paul

Hi Neil, I did indeed end up putting three grub screws in. I think I had to use smaller than M5 - M4 or maybe even M3 , since the alignment ring doesn't protrude that much. It works a treat, though if I did it again, I'd use four screws for reasons you've mentioned.

However, I rarely use it now, as a Bison came up at an auction (with a load of collets)

All the best, Paul

I had a similar problem on my Meddings. Like a many British Manufacturers, Meddings had a very gradual changeover to metric. In my case, the column was 2 3/4" , but someone had replaced the table with a 70mm metric one - they get smashed quite often when someone loosens the wrong bolt and the head comes crashing down on the table.

The difference is only 0.15mm, which made it still possible to clamp, but excessive force required. I glued some stainless steel shim stock to the bore and now it tightens and untightens with virtually no effort.

I phoned the customer services number and explained that I get 'These details are incorrect' when I enter my email and Customer ID.

She said that she thinks they're having a few teething troubles with it and are hoping to have it up and running by next week. We'll see...

I've been a digital subscriber since February, and have been able to access the archive easily by clicking on the Magazines menu and selecting MEW.

But now, when I click on MEW, I'm asked for an email address, and a customer ID. I've never been sent a customer ID, just a subscription number.

If I click on the link to 'add MEW archive to your package', I'm taken to a site called classicmagazines.co.uk. I've been able to create a login, which confirms my subscription is still active, but nowhere does it show my Customer ID.

There's a rather unhelpful help section that shows where the cust ID is on a cover letter for print subscriptions, but nothing for digital subscriptions. I've never received anything from classicmagazines.

I phoned classicmagazines and got my customer ID from them, but when I use it to access the archive as described above, I'm told 'these details are incorrect '.

So how do I access the MEW archive?

Edited By Diy Addict on 15/06/2022 16:10:26

Pete, have pm'd you.

Yes, that's how I understood it. That's why I'm hesitant to get a pair of new stones - presumably they've been ground with a wheel of similar grit. But to properly flatten and smooth the peaks you'd need a much finer wheel.

I've heard a lot about precision-ground flat stones for removing dings and raised scratches on finely ground flat surfaces without damaging them. But no-one seems to sell them in the UK. I know I could order from the US, but it's a minefield for extra handling & customs charges and delays.

If I've understood correctly, anyone with a decent surface grinder and a fine diamond wheel could make them, but I don't have access to one.

Has anyone tried this approach? If not how do you get around this problem?

Would anyone who has the requisite machinery be prepared to make and sell some? I think there could be quite a few interested buyers.

I just acquired a used Axminster VHM mill, which is a Taiwanese clone of the Emco FB2. It's a very capable machine for its size - so much so, I'm afraid of wearing it out or breaking it by using too deep cuts etc.

I've been using Sandvik 12mm solid carbide end mills quite a bit for making steel hold-down clamps, tee nuts etc. A speeds & feeds calculator gives a speed of 2500 rpm, so I've been using it at 2000 rpm with reasonable but not great results (I use morse taper collets for toolholding).

So far I haven't risked a cut deeper than 1mm. The motor gets quite hot and I'm also worried about stripping the tufnol gear. So my question is to owners of the FB2 and its clones - how far can you push it milling mild steel without risking damage? What depth of cut would it cope with, for a 12mm (1/2" ) solid carbide cutter, and other sizes? What about DOC for side-milling?

Thanks in advance, Paul

I know I'm late to the party, but having read this thread, I eventually ordered the Warco 5c chuck with built-in D1-3, with the intention of adding a back plate if runout was bad. Well the one I recieved had a runout of more than 0.002" on the inside tapered part of the chuck - much higher than I'd hoped.

I tried a couple of positions and made sure all the mating surfaces were spotless, but just couldn't get lower than 2 thou.

I thought about returning it but I can't resist a tinker, so took it apart. The front separates from the back at the hole for the chuck key.

The rear part has an alignment ring ground into it. So it was an easy job to mount it directly on the lathe and turn the ring down slightly:

I took 0.005" off it, to give a bit of wiggle room for future adjustment. During this process, I found that the inner ring with the through bore was out of true by a lot more than 2 thou - nearer 20 thou - so I turned that to be true to help balance the chuck.

Stuck it back together and a bit of judicious use of the rubber mallet, and now the runout is down to a couple of tenths. I'm thinking of putting some threaded holes in the front part and some grub screws to make the runout adjustable with a hex key. There's not a lot of room for error though, as the alignment ring doesn't project that much.

I haven't yet measured the runout with a collet installed, so I'm not sure how good it will be a couple of inches from the chuck.

If I could justify the expense of a Bison, I'd definitely go down that route, but the Warco one now suits my needs, and at least it's possible to fettle it.

Well here's the solution I finally came up with - a Coronet Minor Headstock!

Bought on a whim from you-know-where for £26, it could have been made for this job! The only mods needed were three holes for registration pins and mounting to the cross slide; a couple of collars, and a simple sprung indexing pin. Of course, you have to already have a gear with the required tooth count. It's shown here with an 89 tooth DP 16 gear blank in Tufnol.

The headstock has an external thread which a 3/4" pipe fitting bolt fits, and an internal thread, which I've yet to measure. Here's a view from above, showing the mounting holes and indexing pin:

I had to swivel the vertical mill attachment so the reference gear doesn't hit the column. I haven't dared try any cutting yet. There aren't really enough threads on the external front thread to be confident of good clamping, so I'll make some sort of front clamp using the internal thread before I try it out. The indexing pin is also 'blind' - hidden behind the casting, so there's plenty of scope for a mark 2 if the concept works.

Let me know if I'm about to cause a big accident.

All the best, Paul

There's an original 254 saddle stop on eBay at the moment. At and eye-watering price, but might give you an idea how to make one.

I'm finding myself increasingly jealous of your lathe.