Member postings for William S

Hello all

Think you have trouble misplacing you full size chuck key? How would you contend with this size(I have misplaced it several times myself whilst making it!!)

Sorry about the orientation.

It’s a 1/3rd scale miniature 80mm 3 jaw chuck. It still needs finishing off, the pinions are my next stumbling block really. If there is interest I can explain how I made certain parts!

Thanks for reading

William

Hello

The rear jockey wheels that I have run the belt over and under in some pictures are only to be used when the head is tilted, not when vertical. As I demonstrated they are there to keep the belt square off the motor pulley.

The newspaper is a Waitrose own brand thing, it’s the only plentyfull supply of free good fire lighting paper(and bench protector)!!

Even with the original motor the belt does stilll rub on the headstock casting on the slowest pulley combo, however on my previous machine which had a longer belt and a smaller diameter it didn’t.

The spring does seem to work on my machine, better than my previous machine, it has to be the right length too long and when the belt is released it launched the pulleys across the room! The spring in the machine above is perfect as the belt can be totally removed and the assembly remains. I do still have belt slip when using a slitting saw not that that is an issue, saves the saw blades!

Yes Tenga are not cheap, but nor where the machines back in the day, mine in 1977 with all the tooling I have would of been around £14000 in today’s money!

William

Hello Steve

Sorry for the delay:

The following pictures are of the top jockey wheels, as you thought these swing left to right basically between centres! these do all the work changing direction of the belt.

Up and down is only about 1/2" on the "quill"/spindle down feed so the belt just rolls around these jockey wheels

The counter balance on the end of the pole I cant say it really does much to the motion, I not have noticed it anyway. the pole swings backward without the belt so It doesn't seem to do much.

(And yes the machine is in the house, right next to the front door in the porch! ideal as it was a wasted space anyway and its got brilliant sunshine in the afternoon though 2 windows!)

William

Hello Steve

Me again! I think the following pictures should explain better than words:

Any questions, please ask, I have/will update the pantograph drive pictures thread aswell.

William

Good evening

Not a Deckel but I am the owner of an Alexander 2c engraver, which uses a very similar drive belt tension arrangement to a Deckel:

It is a very simple yet effective set up, basically the counterbalanced arm pivots on the bottom pulley spindle. The top pulleys are pivoting on the top of the arm. These pulleys are in turn connected to the spindle via a spring loaded rod, what actually provides the belt tension. I hope that helps, the most important part to me is the arm pivoting on the bottom pulley. Any other query’s I can try to answer, I can get machine out if you require a side on picture.
(I do apologise for the orientation of the pictures)

William.

Yep Micheal,

Great isn't it! really clear and concise telling you what to pump the most critical part with!

I have just used spindle oil(same as the super 7) as to my mind it works better with the bushes, the only problem is it doesn't really stay in the bearings too well ( theres a black line on the blinds behind the machine!) , so I guess they mean almost a sticky combination between a grease and an oil. I did look up modern equivalents to shell etc and I can not quite remember off the top of my head what I found I think it said something about 16 weight oil.

Jake you lucky devil did you get the manual from your mate? If you did I envy you. Thanks for publishing it on here.

Treasure it as they are like rocking horse doodahs. I have a reprint from lathes.co.uk, which is made up of what you have and a load of adverts etc. It may be worth getting in touch with Tony with that pricelist, the reprint only has one from a MK2.

William

Is the plate upside down?- Could it have been done to counteract the tension of the belt.

Or has it happened due to over use of belt tension? it seems rather excessive, but seems to be rather accurately done.

William

Hello Jake,

As a Proud owner of a B.C.A mk3 and an Axminster sx2 mini mill(very similar machine to the wm12) , I would say get the B.C.A. Providing it is tooled up and in a good mechanical condition.

Do you know if it is a MK2 or MK3?

This has a major impact on the table travels, It seems Clive had a Mk2 and comments on the work envelope being small. MK3 machines gained I believe 1 to 2" of travel on all slides which may not sound a lot but I have bored out a Land rover series 2a front wheel hub, wheel studs holes. Okay the clamping arraignment was a bit heath Robinson but I did not know at the time the centre hole of the table is threaded!

The capacity I suppose I haven't struggled with as I do own all the original spindle tooling which does seem to help a lot. The front hub I used the "Tenga" type small boring head, which equipped with a carbide tool chomped though the cast iron and weld without any complaints.

The worries people have for them being more a drilling machine are not really valid in my opinion, for hobby use, I'am able to achieve a higher depth of cut on the BCA than on my mini mill! The spindle set up is key to this, I set mine up in the dead of night to actually hear the oil squidging about with me swinging off it! Not scientific I know but boy what a difference it made to the depth of cuts. Yes in a industrial production environment they are not a mill, but for hobby use you ain't going to wear it out.

This is where I have to confess to owning 2 BCAs, My first one is in a rather used condition, which was staring me in the face when I went to view it but I had been rather excited buy the full set of spindle tooling and purchased it anyway! My second machine is mint, all original hand scraping on all the ways etc. Although this has very little in the way of tooling in comparison to my first. The first machine had come straight from industry to my workshop, (mid seventies to 2018) the second machine despite being older (mid sixties) took an early retirement in the early 90s and made 1 clock in 25 years!

What I am saying is tooling made the worn out machine worth it as I had to fight the machine very little, tightening up on the extremities of travel was just something I had to live with. Coming from the mini mill which I found frustrating to use due to the lack of quality control. The worn BCA made my milling jobs something to look forward too!

You say you have been brought up on Bridgeports, I being an apprentice being brought up on Bridgeports at exactly the same time as learning the BCA I haven't found any problems switching between the 2 types of machine if anything I am more adaptable at work because of having to be creative with set ups on the BCA at home!

The collet issue is an important one to make, early machines use 3/8X26tpi on spindle tooling MK3s use M9x1mm the dimension everywhere else are exactly the same! so take a not of the bottom of the drawbar some people have forced incorrect era of tooling in the drawbars which does wreck them (obviously!) The threaded collet issue is important aswell Internal threaded collets were only avaliable in 6mm, 1/4", 3/8" and 10mm if you have them you are well set up! I made up a 6mm and 1/4" fc3/weldon/side lock shank arbors that go directly in the spindle which I use all the time. I intend to make other sizes when time allows.

you also mention you have a small workshop, neither machines are big so your fine on that front however there is a vast chasm between the machine weights the BCA is extremely heavy so just expect that when it comes to moving it!

If you look through my albums there is one or 2 pictures which show my machine in action

I hope that makes sense

William

Hello all

Right thank you all for the reply's, I won't be changing the balls then! It was just my thoughts, I asked for peoples mechanical opinions on the change, not for more reply's about insurance than what I actually asked (I doubt my insurance company would even know what I was on about if I told them down the phone!) Like the last post I also see insurance as the biggest con going but thats my opinion.

ICS I have been in contact with the prices arent exactly cheap but I did say in my original post I have no problem with that, I was just looking in to improving the longevity of the remidial work done. Thanks for the info on ball screws manfactures, definatly something to look in to, I hadnt actually thought about them. However using larger balls is not possible as they have to travel though a tube on the nut so it would requre a lot of re-work. The actual worm shaft is welded up out of 3 pieces.

I did not criticise the original design of the land rover steering, so why some people seem to think I want to totally redo the steering with a rack etc I dont know. Thanks for the suggestions but maybe read what I wrote in the begining again. The fourtrak point has been noted, however they seem to be at about the same cost as land rover stuff for a good one so I will probally just save all the hassle of redesigning the system and just keep it original.

My land rover is a 1963 2a diesel, 2 owners from new, within a 15 mile radius of each other in Devon, It was almost a shame to bring it over to Kent but hey ho! Being a 63 it should have the wire spoke, pinch bolt clamp type wheel. mine doesnt it has a series 3 box and wheel, the steering lock facility is the biggest giveaway. this box appears to have been second hand when installed itself so the wear had already taken place, I think then a poor set up and adjustment when installed has caused the damage. the original owners manual doest exactly say when to change the oil, it just say to cheack it at regular intervals, im not sure what the service manual says as it not close to hand at the minute.

I have managed to source a genuine NOS worm and nut for both the correct type box and my series 3 box. I will rebuild this and use it untill, I find an early wire spoke wheel so I can return it to stock if I also can find an early box in the future.

Thanks for the importance of setting the swivels, I wont touch them as they feel fine at the moment. I plan to overhual the axles next year so will address them then.

Thanks again for the help

William

Hello all

I am currently overhauling my Land rover series 2a steering, (it tried to dictate its preferred direction, which was exciting!)

I am nearly there with sorting why it did that, my attention is now on the steering box. As I am sure some on here know, they work on recirculating ball. A course "worm" with a single "thread" nut made up of a ball bearings.

They have a nasty habit of doing this:

Now to rectify this is not the cheapest thing on the planet, and pattern parts are of dubious quality. I have no worry over cost of reconditioning but I would like to prevent the above from happening again in a short space of time. (I know when set up correctly it shouldn't but I would like to know what is peoples opinions on my suggestion)

What would the implications be of replacing the hardened steel balls that travel up and down the worm with phosphor bronze balls?

The worm and nut I belive are hardened and it all sits in an oil bath.

I hope that makes sense and I look forward to your opinions

Many thanks William

Hello Danny

Been there, I set up about a year ago to manufacture some brass load binders/turn buckles for a neighbour who is interested in Tamiya 1/14 scale RC lorrys.

Tracey tools supplied the left handed taps and dies, I used a 8ba as its an inbetween size:

Blanks ready for threading:

It was an exercise for me in setting up and using the Myfords capstan lathe attachments, This was worth it to me as I did 50 turnbuckles which meant 100 "eyes"

I used a roller box to reduce the the diameters on the body's and the "eyes"

This tool faced the components:

Centre drill and tapping drill:

I made these up for threading the bodys, I used these with the lathe in standard mode, only to keep the motor running the same direction. I kept on using the quick release collet chuck though. the die was held in a tailstock die holder and used in the same way.

This attachment was to drill the cross holes and thickness/flats, for the eyes, the "drill" is an old carbide endmill shank ground to a D bit. The jig enables the component to be rotated 180degrees to produce the the flat on both sides.

The following images show how I made the eyes round and put a round over on the edges, done on a pantograph engraver following the template:

I hope that supplies food for thought, The last bit may not be any help as I am not sure on the ends you might require.

William

Hello Matt

If it is the original 3 phase motor it should be a 2 speed, 380/400volt motor which I was told does not and will not run on a 240volt VFD. A VFD does not step-up the voltage so one would have to have a 3 phase supply to run that particular motor on a 380 volt VFD. A VFD would also limit the motor to one speed setting.

What I did was to get a 240volt single phase to 400v 3 phase converter made by Transwave. This enabled the machine to retain its original motor, which corresponds up with the speed chart.

They turn up relatively regularly on ebay, or you could buy new. They do seem to hold there value and if one acquires any other 3 phase equipment it should happily run it.

In my opinion I haven't had any call for the variable speed function the speed available from the motor and belt combinations has suited all the original tooling adequately.

I like the originality about the machine, okay the belt system may seem archaic but it does work well when set up correctly.

Just my experience, William.

Oh yes I stand corrected, hadn't thought of that! looking up on graces guide there are some adverts with Birmingham 19 as the address.

William

The firm I work for had/have (unsure if we've still retained that exact one! Ill have a look on Monday), it a Jones and Shipman 540 surface grinder with the old company name on a little tag on the back of the machine with the old company name of Diagrit grinding company.

Unsure of the exact reason why a tag was placed on it, the fact that we still have it, were never machinery dealers, and Jones and Shipman being a British based company would indicate other uses to what has been said above. (I could be wrong!)

The picture above has a number 19 on the tag. The tag on our 540, I am unsure whether it has any numbers on it but could these tags been works machine numbers. I know all current grinding machines have a little plastic disc with a number which is to do with coolant records, but these do not have the company name.

Hope that is of any useful information

William

Evening all

So armed with the above information I have had a go at hobbing a worm wheel.

Began with grinding a 20degree pressure angle single point tool(done on the little d bit grinder takes a bit of faffing about the get the clearence angles!);

Then I set the lathe the cut the hob, 64dp which meant swapping the input gear for a 33t. The hob screwcut, then some cutting edges formed with a slitting saw. Couldn't find a piece of 8mm silver steel so I used a piece of printer rod, I haven't harden it as it was only a test;

On the shadow graph at work just to see what it it looks like, not bad if I say so myself!;

The lathe set up to hob the wheel (not the best I know);

First test went well, an old chopping board was the material only issue was not making it single enveloping and not gashing caused 179 teeth;

Final test achived the magic 180t (gashed with a slitting saw) and a single enveloping wheel;

So all in all not bad, totally doable I reckon, I will now refine the hob in silver steel, harden then have a go in a piece of metal!

I think I will now take the time to do some drawings of the BCA, I might start a thread when I come to do my model for those who are interested.

Many thanks for all the input

William

Edited By William S on 01/07/2020 00:11:15

Edited By William S on 01/07/2020 00:12:13

Hello all

Thanks for all the replys. Neil that is straight to the point and just what I needed to hear, so thanks, I really couldn't see the wood for the trees when looking at the various websites!

Hopper; yes I had considered purchasing some proprietary gears but would like to follow the original table as closely as possible, its machined out of 1 casting (an extremely heavy one at that!!) also wouldn't mind having a go at hobbing! hence the reason for screwcutting.

Micheal; yes you are quite correct its 180 turns so therefore 180 teeth on the actual table. Thats working on to many machines thinking I know the machine at home well! Yes a definite undertaking but something I have always had in the back of my mind ever since acquiring the machine.

Andrew; Thats again just the answer I needed!

Clive; yes starting with a fine machine and then making it smaller isnt going to be a five minute job, not to worried about the scales/rulers, more racking my brain on how to hold cutters in an 1/8" spindle through hole. Its going to be a mk3, I quite like the idea of fighting a piece of sheet metal in many directions to form that guard!

Howard; Its a 180 tooth gear I decided wrongly that it was a 120. the calculation that allowed you to work the diameter out sounds handy to know though.

A quick question about hobbing is it always necessary to gash a gear prior to hobbing?

Thanks for all your help much appreciated

William

Hello all

I have got this idea stuck in my head about making a working 1/3rd size BCA jig borer. (Blame the SMEE stand, that rather superb 1/3rd size ML7 at Ali Paly resparked this idea!)

The only stumbling block in the design in my head stage, is the worm gears that are on the machine, The fine feed mech is a bit in the future at the moment so not too worried presently!

So the worm gear that is perplexing me is the rotary table feed, It is a 120:1 ratio, as far as I can measure a pitch of 3.63 which seems to corresponed up with a No. 22DP (is DP for worm gears? cant seem to find a definitive answer) So if I have understood previous posts about scaling gears DP is multiplied by the scale factor.

So in my case that would equal 66DP. Now I would like to screw cut this worm if possible, however having a gearbox Super 7 I will have to use the trick of switching the input gear to achive a near as damn it metric pitch. The comprehensive charts I have from this site list a DP of either 64(1.245pitch) or 68(1.173pitch). Dividing the full size pitch gives a scale pitch of 1.210.

So my main jist here I wish to ask is will this slight variation in pitch affect the 120:1 ratio?

I hope this all makes some sense! I look forward to the replys.

Any other information I can supply if required.

William

Evening all

My dad has the plaster moulds for the lost wax casting process for all the standard accessories for the tool in discussion, The straight fence, the curved fence and the little locking screw.

These were used to complete his No.66 and his work colleagues tools too, (each person having what the other required!!)

Moulds were taken from each original part and used to produce wax copies which were subsequently cast. The castings were done by my grandad who had a non ferrous lost wax foundry (this has subsequently been wound up owing to ill health) If interested I might be able to produce and supply required waxes, if you or someone can find a foundary to be able to invest and cast the components.

Being a non ferrous foundry the ones my dad have are cast in bronze. Pictures of finished articles can be supplied if interested, (required tool is in a furlonged state!!)

One thing to note is with any casting process there is shrinkage and because these are moulded from originals, they will end up slightly smaller. However the part was increased before moulding on the critical area (the key that prevents rotation) to machine to size.

Hope this is any help.

Many thanks William.

It's definatly a Myford. A mini Kop model 1 a. Such a shame it's missing the vital bits that make it a hydraulic copy lathe, but they are mostly found incomplete. A rare piece of Myford history that I hope is brought by someone who can do something with it.

The myford mini Kop page on the lathes.co.uk it shows the model 1 .a about halfway down the first page

Very nicely done as been said before can be done, if pushing the limit!

This is at where I work, not my job I was tasked with (bit daunting) Was glad I wasn't on my usual lathe (Harrison m300) which puts me directly in line with the line of fire if the job was to come out!

Definitely not a polished machine!

Sorry to hijack

William

Edited By William S on 01/06/2019 21:01:43