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Member postings for Keith Hale

Here is a list of all the postings Keith Hale has made in our forums. Click on a thread name to jump to the thread.

Thread: Boiler silver soldering and use of Silfos
06/01/2021 08:24:00

Hi Andrew,

Check out my profile and if you feel it's relevant then consider the content of the personal message.

I can honestly say that in my 50+ years in the brazing business, I have not come across a situation where anyone has felt the need to rectify a copper/copper joint, previously made with Silfos type materials, with either silver solder or soft solder.

There is a very simple and quick way to answering the question.

Clearly you cannot consider a phosphorus bearing alloy for repairing your leaks.

Regards

Keith

Thread: Removing soft solder from brass before silver soldering
03/01/2021 17:10:21

Hi all

What soft solder is the subject? Lead is poison to the body and silver solder joints.

Lead free solders....?

Another story......?

Regards

Keith

03/01/2021 11:15:27

Hi Brian.

Check my personal profile. Relevant?

Then see personal message.

Regards Keith

Thread: Calor gas butane workshop radiant heater
24/12/2020 00:46:22

Is this for real?

The guy is being fobbed off by a dealer who probably knows 3/5 of not very much of what he is selling (?)

There are a lot of them about!

Smelling fumes, carbon monoxide alarms, water in the combustion gases....

Forget that, this dealer should be offering the opportunity to turn lead into gold with this equipment. I'm off to the church roof with this heater. 😂

Regards

Keith

..

23/12/2020 17:32:14

Hi Sam.

The dealer is pulling your chain!

The amount of oxygen in the air is just under 20% and, I believe, has been since God was a boy. Sounds like a piece of special kit being given away on a £50 heater. You won't get it on a propane torch no matter how much you pay. 😀

Take it back and offer to light and run it in his office!

Don't mess about with any settings or valves. If you're cold, light your brazing torch!

Regards

Keith

Thread: Soft soldering aluminised tube ?
09/12/2020 13:10:19

Hi Tim

Simply use a liquid soft soldering flux SPECIFICALLY for aluminium. Follow this with 60/40 tin/lead solder.

Or you could adopt a cheaper option of using a soft solder wire with a flux core suitable for aluminium. It's cheaper because you're buying less flux and in a form that can be sent through the post at minimum cost.

You know where to find both items!🤔

What puzzles me is why you didn't ring them in the first place. One phone call and you get the advice and materials.

Best wishes

Keith

Thread: Brazing copper
04/12/2020 12:53:53

No need to correct you.

But why the French would want to use a 5% silver alloy and not a simple 7% phosphorus copper baffles me

The joint strength is the same ie that of annealed copper.

The brazing temperature with silver is about 20° lower. (Read the small print relating to the brazing temperature of these alloys!)

The corrosion resistance of the filler metal is better than the parent material. Really?

For which, the Frenchman pays an extra £35 or €40 per kg for his filler.

Feel free to follow if you are so inclined but even their gas fired water heaters don't have a silver bearing alloy for their copper to copper joints and experience no problems. Been there!

Keith

02/12/2020 23:30:48

And plumbing fittings ensure that there is an overlap between the components.

And the reason......?

Keith

02/12/2020 22:47:47

Hi Andrew,

There you go, all brazed joints are designed in shear for maximum strength.

That means there is an overlap between the two components.

All the text books and British standards say so.

Regards

Keith

02/12/2020 21:12:59

Hi Andrew

Be wary, very wary.

Obviously Martin believes that you are going to run your engine on gas. A coal fired boiler produces a hot sulphur bearing atmosphere that destroys joints made with copper phosphorus alloys. Depending on the quality of joint, your engine might run for a couple of occasions. Not a problem if you enyoy building the boiler and subsequent ones. Can't believe that suggestion!

As regards using oxy-acetylene, be equally careful. Such torches in the hands of an amateur creates more problems than it solves. Unless you make sure that you know what you want to achieve and how to do it, a whole catalogue of disasters awaits. Melted copper and brass, weak joints caused by the filler metal not penetrating the joint, excessive use of silver solder.

Make sure you use the experience and knowledge of someone who knows. Check the members profile.

Brazing is a very simple process as long as you understand it. If you don't then expect problems . Talk to your material suppliers and people who understand the process.

Why do you think that professional boiler makers charge what they do?

Mind how you go.

Get professional advice.

Keith

Thread: Welding aluminium
19/11/2020 09:04:19

Hi Alan,

Technoweld is readily available from here.

I've not been to an exhibition for awhile, but I seem to recall that buying without the demo is cheaper

**LINK**

But you can watch video clips to remind you how to use it.

Regards

Keith

Thread: Composite washers for Bullfinch and Sievert propane torches
15/11/2020 13:23:33

I am confused!

My sievert torch is a pro 86. The washers fit between the burner and neck tube. The burners concerned are 3938 - 41 and 2941 - 44. These are the ones sold by CuP so they are not suitable for you - even gold plated!

There isn't a washer between handle and neck tube. You will get a gas leak here if the connection is not nipped up tight.

I share Simon's experience when changing burners during demonstrations of sievert torches. I did learn eventually!

Sorry that I can't be of more help.

Keith

Thread: Soldering problem
15/11/2020 12:29:36

The solder will only wet onto the brass if the surface is clean ie free of carbon, sand,etc and oxides. You have dismissed surface contamination which leaves oxides as the problem.

The function of the flux is to remove ALL oxides formed prior to and during the heating cycle. There is no universal flux, and I don't understand what is meant by a "strong flux". Al bronze can only be soldered or brazed with the right flux!

Not knowing what is in the brass, it's one guess after another til you get it right.

More info is needed

Keith

Thread: Silver Soldering for the Clockmaker
13/11/2020 15:01:27

Hi Bernard

Thanks for your kind words. You will probably remember that it doesn't matter in the slightest how clean the joint is at room temperature.

The only. consideration is the cleanliness at 650°C. Other than ensuring the joint is not covered in oil/grease, mud, residue from shot blasting or emery cloth, you can do nothing about that apart from making sure you use the right flux. That ensures successful brazing

Pickling before silver soldering is a waste of time.

Glad to have been of help in the past. You can always contact my friends at CuP Alloys or me via a personal message.

Keith

Thread: ME4651 - Flangeless Boilers
09/11/2020 09:39:35

The answer, as always, to preventing and/or overcoming leaking joints lies behind the torch.

The basic principle of soldering and brazing has been ignored. If you achieve capillary flow of the solder, it will penetrate the joint. If you don't, then you will reach the situation as per the sketch where a superficial joint is made on the surface but a crack is built into the back of the joint. The joint fails as a result of a poor heating technique. Where a silver solder has been used, you can be sure that the joints have been made using a welding technique with an oxy-acetylene torch.

If in attempting to repair a leak you find another, is more evidence of a poor heating technique. The second, third, fourth......leak is developed in other weak joints created at the same time as the first.

It is virtually impossible to repair a leak in isolation. Leaks can be repaired. You just have to adopt a better heating technique. It can be done, it just requires a better heating technique and a little patience.

As in all cases, prevention is better than a cure.

For more information consult BS EN 14324 available for £220+ or get a specialist book from your supplier of brazing materials.

But bear in mind that if you decide to repair a silver solder joint with a soft solder that you are entering the"Last Chance Saloon" . If you don't succeed, some consolation will be obtained from the scrap price of copper.

Keith

PS. It's an excellent book - I wrote it!

Thread: Brass or Stainless
04/11/2020 17:21:08

Hi Howard.

Your problem is being over egged!

Your tender is not going to be subject to any temperature. There is no need for a silver solder. No matter what material you decide upon the joints can be made with a soft solder. Just use the appropriate flux.

If you use stainless steel, then use a flux suitable for it. You can still use tin/lead or tin/copper. Your choice but they will leave a black or grey joint line. Does that matter if you are going to paint it?

If it does matter then use a silver/tin alloy. You won't see the joint.The spouts on stainless steel kettles were soldered with such an alloy. Corrosion ? What corrosion? Beer engines and shop signs are still assembled using it.

It really is a simple situation. Use your common sense and just do it!

If you want any more information then consult BS EN 14324 or my book which is written around it! A point to bear in mind..... you can buy 10 books for the price of one copy of the BS!

Keith

Thread: Soldering 304 grade stainless steel
19/10/2020 09:56:07

Hi Andy,

See personal message

Keith

Thread: Mechanical properties of soft solders.
18/10/2020 11:22:06

Hi Robin

The success of brazing and soldering is covered in BS EN 14324 available from BSI at £254!

Alternatively a more readable book based on the BS is currently undergoing another print run and drawing on 50+ years in the business.

See pm for more information.

Keith

Thread: Copper tube for boiler
18/10/2020 10:03:00

Hi Sam,

Neil offers sound advice. Practice using steel tube. If you can produce sound joints, copper will present no problems.

But use C101 or C106 grade to avoid the pitfalls associated with cheaper grades.

Carry out your brazing procedure using the principle of capillary flow.

Follow the guidelines in

BS EN 14324 available from BSI at £254.

Alternatively see PM

Keith

Thread: Mechanical properties of soft solders.
16/10/2020 16:44:21

Hi Howard,

Does 50+ years in this business count as someone who might know?

Of course joints in tension rely on the bulk strength of the solder and are relatively weak. Joints in shear are much stronger. It is the reason that soldering and brazing have been such popular means of joining metal components for the last 5000 years.

No guesswork involved.

Mortice and tenon joints are ideal for exploiting this fact.

A more comprehensive answer and the reasoning will be found in my book!

Keith

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