Member postings for Bob Worsley

Yes I know this is an old design, Greenley from 1908 and the re-design by Taylor from 1971.

Just bought a set of drawings, and there doesn't seem to be any mention of copper thickness, or working pressure, for the boiler.

Greenley suggested 15swg, 0.072", 1.80mm, as suitable for a 5" diameter barrel with 75psi. It is a compound so wouldn't 100psi be better?

With a 5" barrel for a traction engine or loco then 3mm seems to be the minimum thickness?

An alternative could be to make the boiler only 3.1/2' or so diameter, it isn't going to be worked like a loco so just enough steam to turn it over would do. Reduce the copper cost as well!

There also seems to be one or more drawings missing. It is very hard to make out how it is all plumbed together around the cylinders. There is this ring mentioned but what is it for? Why not flange the throat plate forwards and backwards?

Surprised?

I am reading my way through old MEs, and repeatedly the use of Silfos in making boilers comes up. Why is this any different?

I would also mention the foolish method of making the boiler with just a seam joint between barrel and throatplate, not fully flanged. Again and again this is declared as a safe method of making a joint, possibly 8" long and at 100psi, daft.

Still here, but rarely make a readout now. I still repair them, right from the very first ones I sold in 1992, and keeping the software so it does still work was quite difficult at times. Still using the same 486-25 computer from then, even the same disc drive, PIC firmware in assembler.

I have been slowly going through all the software with the intention of putting on the web site so when I pop my clogs, 67 now, others can work out how to re-calibrate the sensors. Bigger problem is brain fog, simply can't remember things now and have to be careful when re-calibrating so it does work properly.

If you want to make your own, then use the Tensator constant torque springs, SR02 I think, ball bearings and the very soft aircraft cable with the 7x7 construction. My first sensor used fishing trace wire, and it is still working on my lathe so might not really be necessary. If you want to use commercial encoders then I used the HP ones from US Digital or the Bourns ones. Either uses a spring loaded wire or a toothed pulley with the belt running inside some 1/2" aluminium channel around some bearings.

I found that the sensors gave an accuracy of +/-2 thou, the errors were always cyclic so error didn't increase as the distance increased.

Going back 30 years and the design requirements were minimum cost, so the idea of moving the sensors between machines was very popular, as was a single axis self contained readout. Other very important idea was the minimal space taken up by the sensor, the Myford doesn't have much spare room.

Be careful, the 3ph input ones have much smaller smoothing caps on the mains DC side, because it is 3ph. It is very unlikely one would work off of just a sp input. In my experience if it is 3ph input then it outputs 400V 3ph, so even a transformer boost from 240 to 400 won't work.

On the other hand the larger inverters have terminals for extra smoothing caps, so could add as many as you want.

This is high power electrics, only meddle if you understand it!

Only moved once, but the secret looking back was buying well over 100 archive boxes.

These are all the same size, so will stack ok, keep each to 15kg and the removal people will shift them. Tape them closed so no fingers inside, but I had no problems like that.

Use an expert machinery mover to shift the machines. A half tonne lathe, 2.1/2 tonne borer, 3/4 tonne mill, grinder etc etc. Make sure you have four pieces of 3x3 timber for each machine so the shifters can put them off the floor, a pallet truck will move them then. Never assume you can pull a loaded pallet truck up any sort of slope, just not on. When I scrapped my hacksaw used the car to tow it up a minor slope, impossible otherwise.

If you are not used to shifting weight, like buying from auctions, then don't do it yourself, risk of injury one thing, but simply knowing how to lift and shift and securing a load is only learnt by experience. I now only have a 250kg stacker truck, but couldn't survive without it, the 1 tonne forklift was much better.

Yes, but who owns the copyright, not only for any articles but also any forum postings?

Reading the small print on some magazines and you pass all rights to the publisher, irrespective of your copyright, and this is forever, all around the world, in any media.

Having spent a lot of time and effort writing some threads on boilers, I can't see why it is then stolen from me.

Perhaps I am too fussy, but several weeks work is several weeks work, plus the cost of the books.

Bit like the drawings, somehow they are still copyright decades later.

I bought this some years ago, and it is one of extremely few books I have never finished, the errors and the geewhiz were in the end just too much.

Use abebooks to buy books, whilst it is part of Amazon they keep it very quiet.

A warning about Graham Howard and Brunell, I bought a compleete set of parts less finished gears 10 or so years ago, only a few ever arrived. He is a crook, and if he wants to complain I am only too happy to meet him in court.

A set of castings for the 2" Burrell is near £5k.But this is a very detailed engine, rather like the Allchin, a more simple one must be much quicker!

Boiler kit for 2" ploughinng engine was about £800, my made 2" boiler was £2.5k.

Having sorted that, the next modification is to fit a couple of gas struts to the table so you have a chance of moving it up and down, something that seems doing every other hole, pilot, finished size.

TEE Publishing still do copies of some of the LBSC non-ME locos, I have the V2 and Caterpillar, neither of which are County Class, but no idea if the others are likewise not that type.

I find the best heaters are the halogen type, warm you up. Alternative is to use the halogen work lights to illuminate.

But insulation is the answer, do some calculations on wall and ceiling area, U values etc and get an idea of what the heat loss is at a 20 degree inside/outside difference. The Kingspan/Celotex foam insulation is the best stuff obtainable, 0.02 W m^2 m C.

As has been said, no pockets in shrouds, spend it until gone then go for a handout from the council, just like everyone else.

Wasn't there someone asking for a clearance to start up a home workshop in the last few months?

Possibly homeworkshop.

Also lathes web site, worth £35 to see if it will go for £xxxx?

Is it just me or do the flutes look more than a little uneven?

Don't forget that the measuring beams, spars, whatever, are an analogue to digital device, with either light or magnetic bars and spaces doing the measuring. As such, there is always a +/-1 count error in this analogue to digital conversion. So, if the spar has 5 micron lines and spaces then there will be an additional +/-5 micron error. Of course if the spar has a =/-2 micron spacing then this conversion error will be 2 microns and mostly hidden in the conversion to a 5 micron readout. There might also be hysteresis error from moving one way then the other, this could be far more than 5 microns. Spars I have seen have some pretty stiff rubber seals, and the drag from them could be any ones guess.

As usual, do repeated, 20 or so, measurements and machining using something that will resolve to 1 micron, not accurate, but will resolve as a precision reading. A fiducial micrometer is the thing, not a digital micrometer where you have the same conversion error, analogue wins here. The difference between accuracy and precision, also repeatability and resolution. Easiest to machine a diameter on a lathe, from one direction, then the opposite. Measure up, bit of statistics and you have your answer. Read Right First Time by Price.

Why?

A small advert is just as effective as a full page one, tht you see every issue and never read. If they are all the same then it will be accepted.

As LBSC realised, there are beginners, real beginners, out there and they need text, if you don't know what a screwed thrupple on the Boying valve gear is then a photo is useless. As always, if you don't know enough to ask a question then the old LBSC way works. Martin Evans did a series on beginners back in the 80's I think, and I didn't understand him. Look at the Model Steam Locomotive Construction book and see if you understand it, then ask someone in the teens or twenties who has had 15 years of education. The magazine is aiming at people over 50 in the most case, kids gone, got money, never held a file in their hand before.

I think that an ideal first project would be a Weir steam pump, LBSC has described several. It is small, cheap, looks good when working, won't take 5 years to build, will run from air and also a boiler comprising a 1/4" pipe with water in it and a gas lighter.

As for drawings, someone struggling with opening AutoCad - the professional choice? - on a different computer, sheet of paper works.

Remember the past. The New Model Engineer in the mid-50's, lasted less than a year? If it hadn't been for Edgar Westbury and LBSC then ME would have closed before the war.

Is CAD such a wonderful thing? Look at the drawings in the 50's and 60's. then at the start of CAD in the late 80's. Rubbish. Multi colour, lines so thick you needed the drawing to be five times the real size otherwise it all merged into a mess. It was a good way of filling a page for which there wasn't anything else to say, shortage of space, pah.

Going outside your area of competence. Thinking here of the influx of electronics in the 80's, by people who didn't know what they were doing. Look at Martin Cleeve, pillar tool chap, Tubal Cain, Jeynes corner etc for quality. Then these circuits where they couldn't do a circuit diagram, had lines joining at a crossover. Couldn't design, how many speed controllers without any pull down resistors on the transistor bases?

I would suggest that the way forward is to have constructional or instructional articles. Looking back over decades there is no value whatever in reviews of exhibitions, open days and similar. Also reduce the size of the magazine back to the early 60's, less waffle, also less 'continued on page 99'. Also reduce the adverts to only 1/8 page each, if you want more then hopefully there will be boring things like contact details, missing in many cases, where is an 07... mobile phone number? This will reduce the cost of the magazine to print and post, keeping the minimum print run to a lower number. On line archiving simply won't work, and not been here long enough to prove it, paper works. Merge ME with EIM, EIM had some good articles but rather short of pages per issue so a series went on for years. Go back to the 40's with LBSC and look at his articles.

There is the Boat Anchor Archive for electronics, want a similar one for drawings, mostly just scans from decades past, but could be paid for.

No doubt it all wants a huge shake up, another LBSC, got a lot of time for him after reading 30 years of his writings.

Been reading lots of ME's from the 1930's onward. And they are still relevant and useful, the 2.1/2" King in 1932, which the drawings for can be bought from Percival Marshall. Who? This is the problem of CNC and 3D printing etc that in a few years they will be irrelevant due to software changes etc, look at your computer!

I might be in a minority of one but I have no interest at all in computer machining at home, I want to be able to make the item now and in 20 years.

As for people writing, ha, I posted a missive on boilers, only just out of hospital for burns after the flaming I got. I certainly won't bother trying again!

I have an Evolution 255mm carbide cut off saw, they do several so the blade size might be important.

Astonishing! The first thing I had to cut was 20x50 steel, whilst not like wood it was very close. I have cut many things with it, steel and aluminium.

What it won't like is flaky rust. Had to top and tail dozens of square section steel tube, about 40mm by 3mm thickness. Blade was blunt after a few, a new blade only lasted about 10 pieces. It seems to be like the problem of oxy acetylene cutting of rusty steel, it is impervious to the flame and won't cut at all. A film of rust as on storage surface marking is ok, but definitely not anything that looks flaky.

The other thing is the life time and cost of the blade, above comments but I have got through about 6 in 20 years, but compared with a hacksaw it is no competition.

I also have a slow speed saw with the 80 tooth 10" blade. Brilliant, but gearbox failed, bought another secondhand and as AJ mentions, this one chatters, can't find out why.

The real problem I find with these saws is the vice, will they securely hold a short length of metal. Had a big hacksaw but unless the metal was 10" long it wouldn't grip, and even then it was forever slipping. Not certain angle adjustment jaws are really worth the pain.

Just reading lots of old ME's, and my feelings are with a significant number if you replace 'wife' with 'slave' then they aren't at all funny. It was the era when women didn't count, anything they did was of no consequence, penicillin, WW2 Bletchley, Rosie the Riveter etc etc. I really didn't like many of them at all. I don't find anything at all amusing in ruining someones work, washing, so you can play with a loco. LBSC was never like that. In 1965/66 there was some discussion about Chuck returning, and many letters, even then, had my thoughts. Is that when he disappeared for good?

His books and articles, fine, good useful information.

As for critical comments on exhibition models, I have noticed that, and this is why I would never put a model in any exhibition. Worst offenders seemed to be Maskelyne, Hughes, Austen-Walten, though thier articles were always worth reading. What happened to Twin Sisters loco?

All through the 90's I exhibited at the model shows, and the arrival of Ted, with Harold Hall, Greg Sheppard and Mike Chrisp always resulted in a nice chat.

Added to the work he did on the magazine.

I will remember him, all of them, plus Barry Jordan and Roy Darlington.

Thanks chaps.