seig SX3 dead???

Hi Daz,
Can you confirm it is an X3 and not an SX3. The reason I ask is my X3 have a 10 pin plug on the speed control board.

Les.

Hi Daz,
I have no information on the SX3 so I can't help. I suspect the schematic for the SX3 speed control board will not be available as I had to trace the schematic fot my X3.

Les.

Is the main house breaker an RCD.?

If so it will indicate that the fault lies 'probably' with some form of leakage to earth. - Most house RCD's trip around 30 mA. i.e. long before a fuse or a circuit breaker will trip.

They are designed to protect humans not delicate electronic components.

Nick

And RCD is also capable of tripping with an neutral - earth fault.

It also would matter where in the circuit the emergency stop was located. i.e. it may not simply be a mains isolator.

Nick

Edited By daz nosworthy on 30/12/2014 22:17:49

With the greatest of respect, Arc would not say this. I believe that you are mistaken

The SX3 boards for the brushless motors are far more reliable then any boards used with brushed motors.

What we could have said is that if there is a fault on a motor - especially on an X3 BRUSHED motor, it can blow a control board. We do not offer a board repair service. It is a matter of replacing the board for a new board, which could also blow if the motor has developed a fault.

I would kindly request that comments are made with some clarity, before wrong impressions and conclusions are formed.

You can call ARC on or after 5th of January to discuss the matter. A testing service is available at a cost, which you can discuss with Ian, should you wish to go down this route.

Ketan at ARC.

Hi Ketan, yeah ok, I will speak to a tech and go from there..

abit of clarity..

the mc was not an Arc item, it was ordered from Axminster, the first board was replaced only a matter of months later, it was used in a dry heated workshop along with my CNC, a replacement was ordered..

that board still not working properly motor cuts out sometimes under higher loads ( 2mm+ cuts in ally) and sometimes the direction reverses, been good tho of late

so overall very unimpressed with the mill, BUT as said this was an Axminster mill not yours, Axminster have said I can buy another board to try as it now seven years old even tho its been used a handful of times...

I have now come out of my unit and just want the mill for myself to keep my hand in, as I knew of a possible issue I spoke to your guys and was told you keep the boards and that they are generally reliable ( this is an SX3..) BUT the damp can get in and cause problems in unheated sheds and was told you have a testing option for the motor as you stated, and that this would be advisable before another board, as this is already the second board

this could well be a motor fault TBH I have no idea, just wondered if any other users could advise if have suffered a similar issue, or advise if i did miss something obvious, it failed without it being on..not during use

I tried to call but you are on holiday so will try monday

regards, Daz

in case you are wondering I wont deal with Axminster again, as tho its there mc the customer service was abysmal, had a hard enough job getting another board TBH, they did eventually send another board to try..BUT as with yourself was told they are 99% reliable, they could only offer to try a replacement motor if it failed again, but I would have to buy both items

maybe mine was a dud..don't know, just know it don't work

just wish I bought a good ol belt one now..

Reading with interest, as currently looking for a milling machine and the Sieg X3 Super was high on my list until another recent price increase which now takes it to £1450 delivered.

The gaps now too close so looks as though will be opting for a belt driven VMC albeit the jury is still out on this.

As I read it, if an X3 motor develops a fault then there is a strong risk of blowing a board as well. This sounds rather an expensive occurance.

Why is there no protection between the motor and the board to stop this happening? Am I missing something here?

Edited By daz nosworthy on 01/01/2015 02:21:33

Hi Malc & others,
The motor and controller are totaly different between the X3 and SX3. The X3 uses a permanent magnet brush motor with the speed controller using phase angle control via SCR's to control the speed of the motor. I have traced the schematic of this controller and the information is on my website More information about a motor failure on my mill is in the file section of the "Yahoo X_Series_Mills" forum. (You may have to join the forum to get to the file section.) The SX3 uses brushless DC motor which does not have a commutator. The speed controller board will be totally different for this type of motor. I have not seen one of these boards or a schematic so I can only guess at the design. I SUSPECT that the basic DC supply is derived directly from rectified mains. This means that a short or leakage to earth on any part of this board or on the motor will cause the RCD to trip.

Les.

An X3 is a 600w DC brushed motor machine with a belt and gear combination drive.

A Super X3 - SX3 in short is 1000w brushless motor machine with a belt drive.

The brushed motor on the X3 hangs on the outside of the machine. If you have a cold and/or damp workshop, the early models of the X3 used to get effected, especially if machines were left un-used. This problem is not unique to this machine. I am no electronics expert. All I know is that warmer workshops, combined with starting the machine at slow speed for such motors, to warm them up, before use in a cold workshop, or if the machine has not been used for a long time, could help in avoiding damaging circuit boards. After the first two/three years of manufacture of X3, the newer brushed motors on the X3 have proved to be more stable if machines were not used. However, the principal as stated still applies to almost ALL hobby class brushed DC motor based machines from China. Concept: ‘Use them or lose them’.

Why a fault in the motor could take out component on a circuit board, again i have no idea. Perhaps Les can comment on this. He is one of the people on this forum who does have extensive knowledge of the original X3 board.

Now, coming onto the SX3. This has a 1000w brushless motor, which is a totally different animal. It is enclosed inside the head. In the early days, this machine had issues with torque due to the incorrect programming on the related control board. ARC only started selling the SX3 after the torque issue was addressed. All of this is well documents across forums. It is quiet because of the belt drive, and in terms of torque, in ARCs opinion, it is capable of successfully taking on any machine in this size/capacity.

When comparing, you need to compare with other hobby machines in this size, gear or belt drive. In terms of torque, the 1000w brushless SX3 will challenge a 1200w to 1300w brushed DC machine in this class - with or without belt drive, and ARC is happy to make this non-bullcrap statement. I don’t know if it can take on the three phase motor with inverter new offerings on the market by a competitor, but in terms of torque across the speed range - low through to high, I am quietly confidant that it will, and it is at a cheaper price.

Why Daz has been unlucky on two occasions with his Axminster SX3 - I don’t know. I stand by my statement that the brushless motor with related control board is very much a robust system. When we first started selling the machine, SIEG told me that it is suitable for light industrial use, in other words - semi-continous use. Visitors to our website, as well as industrial users who have bought this machine from us over the years, are very well aware that we only sold this machine for hobby use, until middle of last year - 2014. Also, when we sold the SX3 to industrial/business users, we sold it without warranty or guarantee - totally within the law before anyone decides to challenge this comment - as it was sold for hobby use only. We only revised our statement for this machine to hobby and light-industrial use later last year, after observing the performance of the machine through sales and service/electrical compost low failure over nearly four years.

We have not changed the statement from hobby to light-industrial for any other machine which we sell. The key reason is, industrial users buy the hobby machines as a cheap solution. Some of them understand the limitations, and some don’t. Many of them have years of experience and they also have bridgeports on their asset register, but they don’t compare an SX3 to a Bridgeport. I am not having a go at Daz here, so Daz please don’t feel offended

As I said earlier, I don’t know why Daz has been unlucky with his Axminster SX3. It is generally not so sensitive. In fact, this system is far more superior in terms of electronics then most in this size. Daz can call and discuss with me on Monday if he wants to.

Happy New Year

Edited By JasonB on 01/01/2015 13:09:03

Continued from post above. (JasonB)

Malc., in terms of price, it looks like you missed out on several offers during 2014. If you are still interested in 2015, and if you can wait, perhaps you might be able to take advantage of the offers this year as and when they come about, that is if you are still looking to purchase an SX3 at the time. Otherwise, there is plenty to choose from out there, including VMC which is far more metal/heavy duty, and/or good/bad ol iron ….Every machine has its place, size, price and a workshop home in life.

Les,

Thank you, it looks like you beat me to it with a response.

Ketan at ARC

Edited By JasonB on 01/01/2015 13:10:48

Hi Ketan,
I suspected your original comments to Daz had been based on you being told that the problem was with an X3 as it was described in Daz's original post rather than the SX3. The reason that motor failures can damage or destroy controller boards is that fuses between the controller and the motor would not be fast enough to protect the semiconducter power devices on the controller board.
I have now put the information about the motor failure on my X3 in 2008 on my "Weebly website" as I have run out of space on my "Tiscali website."

Les.