I screwed up!

What can I say!
I have at last replaced those two gears that where damaged.

Three videos have been uploaded to my YouTube page, Geoff Halstead,

1st: https://youtu.be/Vbkw0owEV2o

2nd: https://youtu.be/f46rSn41NiI

3rd: https://youtu.be/XSromPLK-LM

but for some reason only one shows up in an iPad browser, but all three in their App!

'Words and Music' available:

Updated version - http://bit.ly/1p45F9i

Original version - http://bit.ly/1TXP0iU

(Cannot believe it's taken me this *^%# long!)

I did have camcorders recording how I removed and replaced the Gear Shaft, but the Kodak camera went belly-up just as the company did, so all I have are short useable clips from the other cameras.
I will do my best editing them to get some semblance of continuity.

I do know that my original description has helped a Forum member, having corresponded with him, and hope it has allayed the fear others may have had about removing the Apron from their machine.

Next will be to finish the Feed Rod Motor (FRoM)

Geoff - I DO get there, eventually

Edited By OuBallie on 04/03/2016 16:52:00

Edited By OuBallie on 04/03/2016 16:58:54

Experience allows you to recognise the mistake, as soon as you make it again.

Having been foolish again, I had to remove the Apron to remove the damaged traverse shaft/gear.

Thanks to Geoff for all his guidance, which gave me the courage to have a go at it

Was none too sure about genuine replacement parts, since the original seemed to bend so easily, (despite a 5mm brass pin in the drive) so made my own replacement, eventually. Wasted a lot of time cutting the gear, because the chart in the Vertex HV6 manual was wrong (eventually made up a spreadsheet which showed up eight discrepancies / omissions) Started a thread on here about this.

Eventually cut a new gear, (blank Loctited into the new shaft). Works and feels better than before. Raised oil level in the Apron by turning up a nylon plug for the hole where the Handwheel gear goes into the Apron. Oil is now distributed to the upper gears by the handwheel being turned manually or under power. You know its working, 'cos it seeps past the shafts on the other gears!

When Apron was off, found found the screws for the Worm Housing were loose. Had to shorten and modify a 5mm Allen key to tighten them after Apron refitted. (found this out the hard way! A VERY slow job, but time well spent).

Also found out why the feed control was a bit too notchy, caused by the Leadscrew interlock, but soon cured.

Feedshaft and Leadscrew now both have 5mm brass shearpins, with 2.5mm drilling, so hopefully, in the event of a future pile up, the pin will shear before damage is done.

Now can restart work on the job that I piled up to begin with!

Howard

[Quote]

Feedshaft and Leadscrew now both have 5mm brass shearpins, with 2.5mm drilling, so hopefully, in the event of a future pile up, the pin will shear before damage is done.

[/Quote]

It is now a foregone conclusion that you will never again have another crash/pile-up/whatever.

Roger

Howard,

Thanks for the kind comment.

More than happy the 'Words and Music' helped you.

Roger,

Never a truer word spoken!

Geoff - Head cold a thing of the past, so back into the Workshop tomorrow.

The workings of the Apron.

This video shows what goes on inside it, something most owners will never see.

https://youtu.be/NdHEYhceCew

Mouth full of teeth on occasion.

Last video for a while as it's taken me more attempts than I had hoped.

The easiest part is the editing, and most definitely NOT the talking bit!

Geoff - Vacuum then Workshop time at last.

Edited By OuBallie on 13/04/2016 09:57:26

Edited By OuBallie on 13/04/2016 09:58:26

Double post, but need to keep this thread up-to-date.

Problem found why the Apron is binding when using the DC motor to powe the Feed Rod

It's one of those that you just shake your head at in utter dismay, for failing to recognise what was cause the problem!

Absolutely nothing to do with the set of worm gears, as I at first thought!

It's that bl@@dy spur gear that's out of square and binding.
Only very slightly with Apron off:

**LINK**

BUT locks near solid with Apron back in position:

**LINK**

Either that spur gear has been bored out of square, or the holes for the Gear Shaft, in the Apron casing, have.

No problem with power from the Gearbox of course, there being enough to overcome the binding.

With the original Gear Shaft, there was only a slight hiccup using the first DC motor, but not with the new Gear Shaft fitted.

Have a new more powerful DC motor I will be trying next week.
Had to make an adapted as the motor shaft is so hard I cannot drill it for a drive pin.

I'm now asking myself a single question . . .
Anyone like to hazard a guess as to what it is?

Geoff - Next week will determine if that question is fulfilled.

Geoff, I have read this thread a number of times, and watched your videos even more. They are much appreciated, as I will at some time venture into the apron of my 13x40 machine to search for a niggling surface-finish problem.

However, back to your story: (I have no answers, just a couple of questions of my own!) The first relates to your first video, where you are spinning the gears in the apron. My old eyes cannot see what I think you are suggesting, i.e. that the big gear is wobbling as it is rotated. To me it seems like the two gears, while slightly misaligned, remain in the same relative positions while being rotated. On the other hand, if the gear (or either of them, actually) was bored square but slightly off-centre, then I could understand the cyclic tightening during rotation. Like I said, my eyes are not 100%. It also isn't clear if your video is illustrating the condition with the pin installed, or with it (partially) loose.

The second question relates to the tightening of the feedshaft. Given the very considerable mechanical advantage that is provided by the worm drive, I am surprised that the (apparently) slight binding of the gears, as demonstrated in the first video, could require the effort that you appear to need in the second video.

I guess I'm missing something.

Roger

Hello Roger,

Both night owls I see.

As you can see from the time stamp, I suddenly realised the mistake I made that you noticed.

Could of course say it was deliberate, but doubt anyone would believe me, knowing my pechant for brain and fingers not quite inline at times 🤔

First point:

That large spur gear would wobble of course if bored out of square - what can I say?

You are correct that it has been bored off-centre,and just enough to bring the DC motor to a halt, when sending power to either the Saddle or Cross-slide.

Pin installed but only halfway. The first time I banged it all the way in, but that spur gear really went off skew and locked up solid against the other one. The gear remains at the same angle without the pin or when only halfway in.

Second point:

I am as baffled as you are.

With the original Gear Shaft the DC motor had no problem moving the Saddle other that a slight slowing down then speeding up again, all in line with that spur gear being off-centre and binding slightly at regular spots.

Can only surmise that the replacement Gear Shaft has exacerbated the binding somehow.

The DC motor spins the Feed Rod and Worm Gears freely with Apron in position and only comes to a halt when trying to move Saddle or Cross-slide, so it's not the Worm Gears.

I'm at a loss, hence my post.

Geoff - It's going to one of those days, and 'Her indoors' wants a good pub lunch.

Hi Geoff,

Both night owls I see. Not these days mate, 2am stints are a thing of the past. I'm on the other side of the world, hence my timestamp.

A couple of thoughts, not necessarily in any order, or connected.

1. I agree, the pinion shaft, in spite of being new, sounds like a good suspect, either as an alternative to, or as a possible addition to an off-centre gear bore. Plenty of measurements to be made there.

2. I don't understand how driving the pin (roll or taper?) completely home can alter the effect. Surely the gear is a neat fit on the pinion shaft, and shouldn't move/tilt or suffer any other untoward movement?

3. When you have the apron removed again, I would be making some very careful runout measurements of the pinion shaft inside the apron, with the gear removed.

4. In your second video you are troubleshooting with the apron bolted onto the carriage. So you cannot see what is happening to the gear mesh when turning the feedshaft. Furthermore, the pinion shaft motion is subject to the effects of its engagement with the rack. It may be instructive to remove the rack while the apron is mounted. You can then drive the feedshaft and observe/apply-loads-to the carriage handwheel.

Good luck.

Roger

Edited By Roger Head on 17/04/2016 14:00:26

If the holes for the roll pin were a product of the factory they are probably not 100% true to the shaft. Try 180 degree relative rotation of shaft and gear and try again.

Roger/Bazyle,

Thanks for your thoughts.

I can only think that the hole through the gear boss is not square, and as you mention Bazyle. The gear to shaft is a neat fit.

Update.
Attacked the Apron boss that the spur gear revolves against with a file, and that lessened the binding somewhat.
The new DC motor had no problem getting everything working whilst the Apron was on the bench, BUT once fitted back onto the lathe and Carriage power selected, it grinds to a halt at the same spot the Handwheel reaches during each revolution.
Conclusion has to be that the Worm Gear Shaft has been bent just sufficiently to cause the binding.
Apron will now stay attached as I search for a more powerful DC motor as this WILL NOT beat me.
Digging heels in now!

I blocked off the access hole to the Carriage Handwheel shaft, at the rear of the Apron, to allow for more oil to be poured in, as Howard has done, and extended the overflow pipe.

Geoff - Spending time on the Austin Seven now, hence delay in responding.

My! You are scientific!

I just turned a bit of nylon to size and, typically, bashed it in with the hammer!

Also you have cleaned up everything.

The rollpin hole in mine had been drilled freehand, so pin, gear and shaft only lined up in one orientation.

Of course, when making the new shaft, I driiled the hole square on, so refitting the pin needed a bit more impact force (aka Hammer blows). If you use official spares, the gear will probably act as a guide, so that the holes are more likely to line up.

Like the new plumbing to feed oil everywhere that its needed. Not too much, or it will go everywhere that its not needed, but nothing will go rusty.

Having overcome the problems (self made) with the worm housing, and the time spent retightening the capscrews, blind, everything works as it should, possibly a little sweeter.

If the capscrews on the wormhousing do need tightening, a 5mm Allen key needs to be shortened by about 6mm at the business end, and the long end extended some 60mm or more,.so that although you can not see what you're doing, fingers are not against the bed and tilting the key. Just take a large dose of patience before attempting to tighten the screws, in situ. (You really don't have much option, unless you have the sort of luck that wins you first prize in a multi roll over lottery

So, if anyone else has mangled their BH600 or a lookalike, even someone as nervous as I , with Geoff's advice, can fix it.

Howard

Geoff, I'm not familiar with the apron handwheel gear train, but are you sure that it's a 1:1 correspondence between the worm gear shaft and the handwheel shaft? If not, then ...

Apologies if I'm telling granny how to suck eggs!

Roger

Howard,

I get it from my parents, both perfectionists. Thanks for the comment 

I drilled the replacement shaft using the drill press.

I just assumed (bad move) that the hole in the gear boss would have been all square, and had the same problem, although I did pass a drill trough the lot, but no improvement.

Life's too short to worry about that now.

Roger,

Good question and not sure as I never had a good look.

The drive is, however, via gears of different diameter so not 1:1

IF and only IF the Apron comes off again, for some reason, I will check.

Geoff - Perfect weather now to tackle the Austin 👏

Edited By OuBallie on 04/05/2016 14:23:29