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Increasing cost of entry into model engineering

The rising costs of new machines

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Jon Lawes27/07/2018 15:51:43
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1078 forum posts

I didn't actually know mills were that affordable... I'd almost written them off as "I'll never own one of those"...

Frederic Frenere27/07/2018 16:12:13
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12 forum posts
Again my friends, that is business! So the guy makes a buck from my viewing each week? I say good luck. He takes the time to make the video and maybe I learn something. Did you never pay to watch a movie? It costs me nothing.
Tell me that a well known trader never gave a magazine journalist a gift of something he reviews? You can not, Fred is not so easy to fool!
My friends, somebody makes money in nearly all aspects of life. Like the guy says, if it looks like an honest test and he is working the part, then why not buy? I did and I'm a happy man. If it breaks or you think it's not hard enough, don't buy!
This is competitive business. If it's too hot, don't cook.
I believe that the supplier has to make a living, but so have we. So has the old guy he put out of business. Home shops are expensive, but so is golf, and motorcycles and other pass times. This guy saved me money. I don't have a problem.
Fred.
Paul Kemp27/07/2018 16:17:25
798 forum posts
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Unfortunately irrespective of what 'customers' say or the perceived quality of the products, as the song says, it really is "all about the money" and that is unlikely to ever change.

There Is more choice now in what you can buy in terms of machinery and hand tools than say 30 years ago. In terms relative to wages over that period my perception is that it is now more affordable. When my father started to kit out his workshop 40 odd years ago it was a case of waiting until a good second hand opportunity arose on a myford lathe and fobco drill, buying new was out of the question. Ten or fifteen years later when I wanted to get some machinery at home my choices of new machines were Myford, Simat (remember them?) Peatol, Cowels or a new player Hobbymat from Eastern Europe, I went with the latter on grounds of capacity and included accessories for the price and have never regretted it.

That choice however has only become available because business has become more global, opening up the opportunities of reduced manufacturing costs in developing countries. How much of what we buy (machinery and tooling) has been manufactured in Britain / The EU? As Ketan points out the world is a constantly changing place and legislation in developing countries is increasing which will only drive up costs. Alongside this is the Internet market place opening up the UK customer base to sellers with minimal overheads. UK companies with all their associated business costs are now having to compete on a less than level playing field. Good for the consumer? Probably in the short term as it keeps the market keen, longer term though we are likely to lose the traditional dealers with a showroom, the ability to go and look and feel before you buy and after sales support. Already in recent years there has been a decline in such traders attending exhibitions and giving their wares greater exposure to the customer, understandable when you consider the costs involved in attending, exhibition charges, transport, accommodation, wages etc.

Like any market, selling tools and machinery to the amateur home user the key perhaps is customer expectation and available disposable income. Time and time again we see on this forum statements such as buy cheap, buy twice - not always the whole truth in a hobby environment where you are buying something for a specific job or something that will be little used, granted not really applicable to a lathe or mill but very relevant to some accessories and consumables. There also seems to be a quest for extreme precision, is that really necessary for perhaps 80% of the projects undertaken? Laudable and good to strive for accuracy but within limits surely. A recent question posed on here is a good example, reaming a few thou out of a bearing bush for a 5" gauge loco - some responses regarding accuracy of the finished hole were astounding considering its purpose! Something that seems rarely considered is fitness for intended purpose - the intended purpose bit applies not only to the manufacturer perception but also the customer ie not only has it been manufactured to a reasonable standard according to the manufacturer's intention of its use but has the customer considered is it good enough for what I want to achieve?

Perhaps a better way to look at all this is from the statement "Quality Costs" as you don't neccesarily "get what you pay for" certainly if you want a high precision bit of kit it will cost, but sadly just because you pay a lot of money doesn't gaurantee high precision! It's all about perception of value for money. If you get a good bit of kit for a few pounds that does what you need, that's a bonus. If you need high precision and pay for it and are happy that's fine too. Is it REALISTIC though to expect accuracy to tenths of thou from a lathe or mill that costs under £1000?

Last week I recieved an email from a commercial company asking if I could help by making a fairly simple aluminium block to replace one that had been lost or damaged. I don't do commercial work but in this case said yes, I could make one. This particular component looked like it was die cast and in a mass production situation sold through a retailer would probably cost £2 - £3. Because it was a commercial company that would obviously be passing the cost on and not a personal friend and because my time is valuable to me in building my own traction engine I had a quick think about how long it would take to make, machining all over to size, drilling 4 holes, tapping two (thread unspecified) counter boring one (fit unspecified) and decided it would take a couple of hours by the time the machine was set up, tooling selected and the operations carried out. I would need to buy in a piece of material so I gave them a price of between £50 and £60. Funnily enough there has been no reply!

Next time you buy a cheap piece of equipment if it does what you need, be thankful you got a bargain, if it's useless be remorseful and put it down to experience but remember if you only buy on line you are contributing to the decline of traditional businesses that allow you to touch and see the goods before purchase and sooner or later they will disappear leaving you to seek out your own source of supply through faceless and unaccountable 'virtual' overseas suppliers with less certainty of getting what you want. Bottom line is we as customers all want perfection for less, suppliers all want (in fact NEED) to make a profit so it's all about the money.

Paul.

Frederic Frenere27/07/2018 16:47:47
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12 forum posts
Yes Paul! It's about making enough money to survive and for us, getting a tool or a part we can make justification spending some of our money on. Yesterday the shop owner was sorry about the internet seller, he is out of business. Today the internet seller is sorry because his customers have found a way to cut him out. Tomorrow another way.
But I am sorry, I am the horse and the door is open. I have wandered far.
Is it more expensive to make a home shop now? I think no.
In 1973 my lathe might have paid for a small car. Maybe 14000FF Also English lathes are often bought with terms, if you look in the old Model Engineer. Much more than most could afford.
Fred.

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