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JasonB30/11/2009 19:08:41
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Have a look at Alan Stepney's site before you cut any metal as there are some drawing errors listed there.
 
 
Jason
Trevorh01/12/2009 10:49:04
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Cheers for that Jason, I will have a detailed look at the drawings when they arrive and compare the comments.
 
Thanks
RodWilson01/12/2009 18:22:22
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May be fiddly but I think small is beautiful!    I'm building the 2" Burrell Gold Medal Tractor.    Not too interested in the running of the model.  To be honest I'll loose a bit of interest when it's finally finished
mgj01/12/2009 21:01:30
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Well before you order any parts, you can make the discs for setting up the rims concentric with the hubs.
 
That's a nice tedious woodworking/MDF job to get out of the way.
Trevorh03/12/2009 10:11:54
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The Drawings have now arrived, Good God, This is going to be quite a task.
 
I think I need to start with a list of the parts for the front end, why do I need the mdf disks?
 
Sorry about this but there's going to be a hell of lot of questions asked hoping to draw on all of the expertise out there
 
cheers
JasonB03/12/2009 13:04:34
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You don't actually need discs. You just need a flat platform like a bit of MDF or off cut of worktop. You then fit a pin to hold the hub and clamp the rim concentric to this as you build up the wheels.
 
I would suggest you ask Santa for a good book on building traction engines that will show you the different ways to tackle the various parts be it wheel building, machining the cylinder, forming the tender etc. I think the best one is Edward Georges you can get details from his site and Dave's books are quite good as well.
 
It wil also help to look through some peoples build diaries such as Conrad's on his 4" Burrell and there are several builds being documented on Traction Talk forum in the model engines section.
 
Most people seem to start with the front end as its a reasonable way to ease yourself into a project.
 
And don't be affraid to ask anything.
 
Jason
mgj03/12/2009 18:09:38
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I like discs - again cats and skins. Just easy to position rims concentrically. But yes a drawn circle on a flat board will do.
 
No Kerbtrawler, it ISN'T a big job. Its lots of little ones, and each one is no different from the many little ones you have tackled on other jobs - except perhaps the tinbashing.
 
Kick off with a few odds and sods that go inside the smokebox and the smokebox door, which is all pretty simple stuff.
 
Don't be fazed by loadsa sheets. Just pick on a bit and make it, and then move onto the next.
 
Its also a good move I found, being a novice at TEs, to take a look at the finished version of yours. Because then you know where bits fit and what engineering "style" suits.

Edited By meyrick griffith-jones on 03/12/2009 18:10:38

Trevorh04/12/2009 11:39:03
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Sound advice, Will be going to the exhibition at sandown and looking closely at any engines that are there
Even better I now have the perfect excuse to stock up on tools and materials
 
Cheers
Trevorh20/01/2010 13:02:17
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Just to update
I purchased the drawings for a 3" Burrell and have ordered the front wheels, Once they arrive, should be next week or the one after I can get started on the build
 
I am going to hopefully keep a diary along with Photo's of how I get along
 
cheers 
Trevorh09/02/2010 12:29:19
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Update time,
I have now recieved the first couple of castings for the front wheels, including the wheels and spokes,
My first problem to overcome is how to hold the hub casting in the lathe, Finally managed to get it fairly true and machined it to comply to the drawing measurements, next issue is how to machine the recess for the spokes......
Worked out that each are 36 degree's apart and on opposing sides of the Hub... Got to make sure I get them the right way round.
Also worked out that each of the internal spokes needs a 17 degree crank in order to get the crank to sit flush to the inner rim of the wheel... only 19 more to go
 
This is proving to be quite a challenge, working in imperial again
 
I have taken Photo's of each step just for the record
 
cheers
mgj09/02/2010 14:12:03
1017 forum posts
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Glad its coming along.  it gets easier - not the jobs but the mental approach based on experience gained!!!!!!
 
Cant beat proper units  - they are just so much easier to work with than these metric jobs. If you only have metric dials - buy a DRO. They make it really really easy.
 
One point - and I haven't seen the Burrell drawings. Things that fit like pistons, cylinders axles all need clearances, and most drawings don't specify what the clearance should be.
 
I use the definitions give in the Model Engineers Handbook under fits.  Precision running. clearance etc. I used them, and you do get what kind of fit you actually wanted. I find that helps come assembly time!!!
Trevorh09/02/2010 18:00:43
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That's a good point, When I worked in heavy engineering we use to go by the rule of thumb
0.001" per 1"shaft dia
and generaly it worked but I guess I will need to consult the old limits and fits table
 
 
JasonB09/02/2010 18:53:04
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Good to hear you have made a start.
 
Its usual practice to mount the rim & hub in a jig and then bend the spokes to suit as the angle will vary slightly depending on what radius you allow on teh bend and how far from the hub/palm you make the bends.
 
Jason

Edited By JasonB on 09/02/2010 18:53:57

Trevorh10/02/2010 08:47:13
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Hi Jason,
Thats one area that I am messing around with because the drawings show the base of the Spoke should be 5/8" but the spokes supplied are only 3/8" which means that they can't sit in against the bottom of the rim.
If i fit them as per the drawing then the radius is covered by the rim and cosmetically looks wrong
 
Also I assume that I need to first dress the casting of the wheels on all faces, that is why I have provisonally bent/set only 1 of the spokes taking the angle/ offset from the drawing.
Trevorh10/02/2010 15:57:02
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Another question, I keep hearing and seeing on various parts of the web the use of Adhesives used to secure the spokes to the Hub - surely they are secured with csk screws and not just relying on the adhesive???
 
Can anyone shed any light on this for me
 
cheers
JasonB10/02/2010 16:43:22
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The adhesive is used in addition to the csk screws, just stops any slight movement. Something like a slow setting Araldite will do.
 
The palm of the spoke does not usually touch the inside face of the rim due to the fillet on the casting or welded joint. I'll look at a few engines and get back to you re what should be right. And the boys on TT will also help, seen you have been there.
 
Jason
JasonB10/02/2010 17:58:32
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I,ve just had a look through all the old 3" Burrells on SRS and they all seem to have perfectly sizes front spokes. Without seeing the drawing its a bit hards to say whats wrong, Have a look through The pictures for yourself and see how the Tee is proportioned to the spoke thickness as this may indicate that the 5/8 dim is wrong.
 
The 3/8" does sound a bit small for a 3" engine, the palms of the front spokes on my 2" Fowler are 3/8, even allowing for the fact the Burrell is a smaller prototype I would have thought they would be bigger
 
Jason
Trevorh10/02/2010 18:47:01
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Much appreciated Jason
 
cheers
Trevorh22/02/2010 11:00:08
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Morning all,
Just an update as to where I have got to, Still machining the front hubs and after serveral attempts I finally managed to transpose the centre line from one face of the hub over to the opposite side, then off set it by 36 degree to give the alternate position of the spokes.
non of which would have been possible without my rotating table....
 
 Still waiting to hear back from Plastow on the dimensions of the spokes, also the front wheel castings appear to be 1/8" undersize on the width where the Tyre will fit, not too concerned at the moment, But I really need to know about the spokes or this will start to hold me up.
Now that I am machining the 2nd hub I have mounted it in a 4 jaw chuck - this works much better than a 3 jaw
 
 
 

Edited By kerbtrawler on 22/02/2010 11:00:58

Trevorh27/02/2010 20:04:40
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Ok , in this mornings post were a complete replacement set of Spokes.. looks as though there was an error when they were cnc'd as the new ones do indeed measure 5/8" on the tee that will be riveted to the wheel.
 
On measuring the width of the wheel, it is amost 1/8" under the width shown on the drawings, will this be a problem? especially considerimng I have yet to clean the casting up, all of the other dimensions check out so it would mean that the tyre or steel band would be 1/16" wider that the wheel. I have asked Plastows and am waiting on there come back.
 
oh yes GOD I HATE TRYING TO MACHINE CASTINGS, this is so frustrating, BUT They do look good when finished
 
cheers for now
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