Simplex Restoration

If a boiler could not pass a pressure test, comsol would not make a difference, since, as you say, it has no inherent strength. Why cloud the issue by mentioning this material? Once again, a poorly made boiler will never pass inspection.

The pressure test forms part of the examination of a boiler and viewing during construction forms another part. At the Sourthern Fed and Northern Association Boiler seminar I went to it was recommended for the boiler inspectors to take digital pictures at the internal inspection stages.

Steve

When calling people tin pot dictators it would be wise to consider that clubs need indemnity insurance for the boiler inspectors, and where they make a reckless decision out side of the guidance they would be personally liable. Its amazing how many people are not prepaired to be an inspector when they understand the responsibilities.

Steve

I, for one, would be glad to be an inspector. There is no history of model boilers exploding. I think someone is attempting to "protect" others from a danger that simply does not exist. Are model boilers dangerous? Of course they are. There are a few simple tests to show if a boiler is safe or not. Requiring digital build photos and a history of paperwork seems a bit over the top. Next, you will need X-rays of all joints and chemical tests of the metal used. These are model boilers, what are these folks thinking? I'm not saying some of this is not a bad idea, but, to require it, is too much. This is a perfect way to discourage anyone wanting to build a live steam locomotive and destroy the hobby.

Where did I put my hack saw? I've got to work to do! HA!

David

hi david,

it is because we have a decent test and inspection regime in UK clubs that on the whole problems are avoided.

in Australia they have a far stricter regime and a far more comprehensive set of regulations/boiler code.

i am here dealing with silver soldered copper boilers.

however i can assure you that miniature loco boilers do fail tests. there is a well known problem with the silversoldering of the Winson's/Modelworks 5"g Black 5 commercial boiler on the foundation ring joints.

i myself have cut up 2 boilers that failed tests and inspection.

i have personally come across 5 instances of the inner firebox crown collapsing, 1 case of a barrel longitudinal joint failing, and 1 outer wrapper to backhead seam leaking. i have forgotten the number of times ive seen a boiler fail with a leaking foundation ring or firebox hole ring to backhead leak.

ive seen people fit plain stays caulked with comsol instead of being threaded and nutted, or if plain, not silversoldered. ive seen inferior grade copper laminate. frequently extra stays have had to be specified and added.

ive seen faulty silversoldering due to inadequate heat, wrong flux, wrong grade silver solder, wrong gap size.

there are one or two notable examples of a UK miniature loco boiler 'exploding' in steam some years ago. there was a notable example with a 5"g B1 where the barrel joint failed.

i also recall one boiler (5"g Ajax) which had passed its tests but when on the track the driver left the blowdown partly open and went to get a cup of tea and the water level quickly got too low. the boiler had to scrapped due to irrepairable damage to the firebox.

do not expect some well known designers to have correctly described boiler construction in ME. thankfully all some years ago but Keith Wilson used to specify the wrong type of cheaper silver solder that is brittle, and Martin Evans used to describe how tubes should be a push fit in the plates! LBSC frequently specified sifbronze welding for the throatplate to barrel joint - which on certain designs if silver soldered causes cracking in later stages especially if silver soldered with oxy-acetylene.

cheers,

julian

Edited By julian atkins on 22/02/2016 12:37:34

As I mentioned before, poorly made boilers are always self correcting. They simply don't pass, they will always fail. No need to keep mentioning poorly made boilers that fail. They will always fail and never get to a public track. It seems that almost all of the failures you have mentioned, are because of poorly made boilers and/or incompetent operators. This makes perfect sense.

So, if ME does not have adequate information on making copper boilers, where does a person go to for information? Especially considering now that you have described boilers that pass inspection and are still prone to failure. You have cited many of the wrong way to do things, how about the "right" ways. You have not given anyone useful building information, only the downside to making model boilers. This is a live steam forum, please teach us how to make boilers. I, and others, need to learn to do it correctly.

By the way, in each of your failure examples, were folks injured, or, only the boiler?

David

David took me to task with my above negative comments and suggested a boiler build log. i supplied him (via PM)with the following details which he was very complimentary of and suggested i share on here....

i have described in some detail construction of my last boiler on another forum

**LINK**

the boiler starts at p.8 on 3rd October 2013 for a few pages, then there is gap till p.12 on 7th March 2014. then lots of further pages and comment.

the firebox staying is dealt with in some detail as the boiler was made with propane and all silver soldered stays.

there is also a separate thread on the same forum dealing with some of the boiler fittings i made for this boiler.

the above forum is much more 'live steam' orientated than the ME forum.

some of the pics also appear on here in some of my albums.

if any one is interested i am happy to supply any further details.

if Diane considers it suitable as a basis for a series of articles in ME i would also be happy to oblige.

cheers,

julian

Edited By julian atkins on 23/02/2016 22:30:09

Yes, thank you Julian. I have not read the entire thread in the other forum just yet. But, what I have seen is good information. Don't let the boiler inspectors discourage folks from building a locomotive before they even start!