Member postings for Skarven

Hi,

I have had the 330x1000 Lathe for 6 months, and I wanted to check how accurate it was. Running Rollie's Dad's Method test I found that the headstock spindle was out of parallel with the ways 0.05mm for a distance of 350 mm. (This was after leveling, before that it was 0.17mm) The Headstock have adjustment screws, and after some serious consideration, I tried these, finally ending up with an error of 0.005mm for 350 mm. Getting below 0.005 was difficult, as just pushing a little on some part of the lathe was enough to to change the error by more than that.

 

This test was run with a 12.7mm (1/2") 450mm bar from an old printer chucked in the three jaw chuck. Later on I used a ER32 collet chuck giving the same result..

The vertical seemed to give some strange result which I think is because this

12.7mm rod is sagging. An aluminium tube 25mm OD 5mm wall thickness gave the same error horizontally, but no (0.01) vertical error.

 

How little error is good enough?

Here is a link with info on magnetic properties of ss.

http://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=1140

It seems to be the way the iron is organized on the molecular level that decide the magnetic properties. Interesting to see that coldworking of 304 can make it magnetic, and heating it afterwards can remove the magnetism.

I forgot,

The real simple test is to stick it in an orange, leave it outside for some time, and see if there is any rust on it!

I think the Copper sulfate was part of my first Chemistry set about 40 years ago. It should still be somewhere. It should be a simple test to perform.

 

This is a link with some chemical testing for different types of stainless steel.

The Hydrochloric Acid Test should be useful.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/identification-stainless-steel-d_383.html

However, I still think the spark test is one that everybody can do with their existing equipment. Either a bench grinder or Angle grinder or maybe a Dremel?

If you have a few pieces of known materials to compare with, it's much easier to do, but there are lots of info on the net:

The following link shows pictures of sparks from different materials:

http://www.wearanswers.com/Instant-Answers/Instant-Answers/Spark-Testing-for-Material-Identification.html

 

I am no expert in this field, but after testing a few pieces of known materials I'm convinced that this is a useful method if you can spare the time to collect a few pieces of different materials, mark them , and look at the sparks.

 

Of course, the best would be to be very clever and mark everything you ever get into your workshop, but who does, and sometimes you find an unknown piece of steel that seems to be exactly right for something, maybe for free!

Some stainless steels are magnetic, some not. The magnetic test will only tell if it is NOT silver steel. If the steel is magnetic, it could be both silver steel and some magnetic stainless steel. Some stainless steels can also be hardened, so this test will not give a simple answer.

 

Most (I think) stainless steel of the 300 type (304,316) containing chromium and nickel are non-magnetic. These are also marked as 18/10 18/8 ...for their chromium and nickel content and they are called Austenitic. I think the steel used in propeller shafts of boats is of another type because of the bad frictional characteristic of chromium/nickel steel.

Hi,

 

You could start with a magnet. If it's non-magnetic, it should be stainless.

If it's magnetic, You could use two pieces of known silver steel and stainless as a reference and make a "Spark test" on a grinding wheel.

 

If you have a low light condition without fluorescent light it is easier to see the difference.

The following link gives some info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_testing

Good luck!

Hi,

Thank you for the help.

It seems to me that I should go ang get some 46 or 32 viscosity hydraulic oil.

I know I can get the 46, because that was available at the same gas station. Maybe they will swap the Compressor oil 68 for the 46 viscosity hydraulic oil?

 

In all my troubles trying to post a Table of viscosity of different types I forgot my second question.

 

Can I use the same oil as a cutting oil?

 

I know there are special cutting oils, but all I can get here is the type that is mixed with water. I do not like the idea of water on my machines, so I would rather use an oil.

 

Up til now I have used a spray can of Cutting oil, WD40 or plain 10W-30 motor oil.

I does not seem to make much difference. My machines have pumps for cutting oil, and I think the finish would be better with a steady supply than the intermittent spray can method. At least I can see the uneven finish where the time between sprays were a little too long.

Link

http://www.statoillubricants.com/mar/lu/sto00131.nsf/UKProductsWeb/compway68/$FILE/Statoil_CompWay_68.pdf

 

Having no other options, I bought the can for about £50 and took it home and cleaned it

 

Further searching accidentally gave me the following table which made some of the standards for viscosity a little clearer.

I was not able to post the heading of this table, but theLink is:

Now, finally my question is: Should I use the Compway 68 compressor oil, or should I go for an engine oil of 20(if available) or a gear oil of 80W, which seems to have similar viscosity.

 

Anybody have an opinion?

Hi,

This is a LONG post, so if You have no interest in lubricating oils, skip it!

Having bought a Chineese mill Tongli ZX45 Super some time ago, I wanted to change the gear oil, and after reading the manual ended up with something like Shell SAE 68. This is obviously wrong, as the SAE numbers goes in 5's. After a little searching on the internet, I found it probably means ISO 68. That was not easy to find around here, so after a few phonecalls to Shell, Mobil... with no results, I went to a Petrol station where I earlier have found unusual things. The guy had never heard of an oil named xxxx-68, but while searching his store he suddenly shouted "Hi, there it says 68!" It was a 10 Litre can of Statoil CompWay 68. (You wouldn't believe the amount of dust on this can.) This is a special Air Compressor oil with the following characteristics:

 

CompWay 68 is recommended for all types of stationary
piston compressors. This oil has been approved by companies
such as Atlas Copco and meets the requirements set forth in
DIN 51506 VDL. Its approval per the Pneurop Oxidation Test
(POT) confirms its excellence in fighting carbon deposits.
ADVANTAGES
CompWay 68 is highly oxidation-stable and fights carbon

Hi,

 

mgj

Principally I agree with the you on the ER-32 collet chucks, but it is very easy for me now to go for the ER-25 that is offered by the same company that sell me the machines. The main thing for me now is to get something that I can use out of the box. Later on I will probably hower over the ebay looking for something better/cheaper, but I want to be able to start using this equipment as soon as it is in the house. 50 years is a long time to wait

 

The coolant pump - at 400 volts, I really don't know if it's a single or 3-phase. We have 3-phase 230 Volts in our house. I'm installing a transformer of 3.5kw 230 to 400 volts to run these machines, so it really doesn't matter.

 

The 6 station tailstock: I completely agree with you, I would probably not be lost without it, but I have done some lathe work, and if you make 4 of the same kind that need drilling, chamfering, tapping ... it's a nice to have feature. And as a family man that once in a lifetime use some money on myself, I think the aproximately 100 euros is well spent

 

The digital indicator: Again I agree with you. Being a programmer/computer man I like the Analogue type. The entry in the list is actually wrong. The text says digital, but the parts number is for an analog one.

The Drill chuck for 3 - 16 mm is a standard accessory for the mill, but You are right, there is no MT4-3 or MT3-2 adapter there.

 

75mm boring head. I will wait for that. It seems I can get one a lot cheaper from other sources, and I will probably not need it for a while.

 

John Olsen

The lathe comes with a 3 jaw, 4 jaw, 250mm face plate, fixed and traveling steadies.

For the drive dogs and high speed tools, I actually have a few after my father ho worked with these things and wanted a workshop of his own. He never got it, the economic situation was a little bit different in the years before 1971, when he died, 50 years old.

He also left me quite a few other tools and a burning desire to work with these things.

Could it be Trøgstad that your family came from, The o here having a slash over it?

 

Hansrudolf

The OZ collet chuck is mostly there because it was listed in the optional accessories, but I see your point.

 

The mills is there for the same reason, and you might say the same for the 6-station turret, although i see some use for that.

 

I had a look at CTC tools Hongkong, and I agree, I could get many of these things cheaper there, in the future I will, but right now I'm eager to get something working as soon as possible

 

Again thank you for all these for a beginner invaluable comments and inputs.

 

Kai

Hi,

Andrev Johnston:

I had a quick look and a search on the practicalmachinist and I must say that my first thought was that I have a lot to learn here!!!! On the other hand, this centering indicator from Bernardo was only 89 euro, so I'll try that one first.

Off Topic. No, I'm not in Austria, but I think these machines come from there.

I'm a Norwegian from the middle part of Norway.

 

mgj:

I tried ebay for a D1-4 to ER3, but could not find anything. It's so easy to order everything at once from the same supplier, that I'll try the ER25 for now.

I'm also convinced that it is better to go for a 3-axis integrated system at once.

There will probably be some limitations in a hybrid system, and the mill with 3-axes only had the problem with the MT 4 morse cone spindle. Everything else was just as I wanted it. I think maybe I can live with that.

 

My order now looks something like this. Tell me if you have any additions or comments.

 

Expert 165D w/3-axis digital Readout (29675,00NKr) e 3390,-

Soft solid Jaws DSI-DK11-160 21-0853 e 38,-
Live center with 7 interchangable tips 22-1041 e 118,-
40 pos.tool post & Multifix E, 4 tips 23-1001 e 395,-
6 station revolving tailstock turret 22-1071 e 96,-
12 pcs. set metric size center drills 41-1070 e 28,-
Bernardo coolant fluid TURN for lath 5l 54-1202 e 59,-
Machine Mount MS-80 53-2000 e 29,- * 4 ?
Indx carbide turning tool set, 12 mm 44-3084 e 115,-
Digital indicator 32-1005 e 20,-
Universal-Magnetmessstativ 32-1055 e 49,-
ER-25 Collet Fixture direct mount D1-4 22-1080 e 65,-
ER-25 Collet round hole collets 26-1022 e 130,-

bits for 44-3084 e ?




Mill FM 50 VM with 3-axis digital e 2910,-

Stand BF3 with chip tray 56-1015 e 215,-
Deluxe clamping kit 52 pcs 14mm M12 28-1001 e 71,-
Hor/Vert rotary table 8inch 27-1001 e 329,-
Mill chuck set OZ MT 4 / 3-25mm 15pcs 26-1007 e 265,-
2-way tilting vice PTS-100 28-2033 e 205,-
20 pcs HSS Tin-coated end mills, 3-20mm 42-1020 e 69,-
10 pcs Tin-ctd roughing end mills 6-25mm42-1016 e 109,-
Taper shank drills MT2/3 9pcs 14.5-30mm 41-1050 e 79,-
Boring head combo 75mm incl boring bars 25-1020 e 215,-
Edge finder with indicator lamp SOE20S 32-1060 e 58,-
Centering indicator 32-1070 e 89,-

Kai

Hi, and thank you for the many useful answers.

 

1: From the answers here I will go for the ER collet system. Chris Trice recommend the ER 32, Bernardo seems to offer only ER-25 for the D1-4 (whatever that is). The ER-32 cover up to 3/4in while the ER-25 goes to 16mm (5/8in ?). It might be possible to get an D1-4 ER-32 adapter from somewhere else. The ER-25 fixture is is only 65 euros while the 5C one is a 190 euros. The fact that you can use the ER's in the milling machine also speaks in their favor.

 

As for the mill, I have already decided to get a DRO, but I'm not shure if I need the 3rd axis.

I am also considering different mill, the Tongli ZX 45 Super. This mill has an ISO 30 spindlecone, which is better, according to Versaboss. In addition is has a lot of equipment standard:

Mill chuck, 100mm vice, reduction ISO 30 - MT3, clamping kit, x-axis power feed, cooling system...

It also has a lower price than the Bernardo, even if they look mostly identical.

But it has only 2-axis DRO. Can I mount this for the 3rd axis myself later on, or do the third axis integrate so intimately with the x and y that you have to change it to a 3-axis system?

 

Andrew Johnston:

The centering indicator is not that expensive, 89 euros, and with little experience I think it will make it easier to get a good accuracy. Same for the edge finder witch is 58 euros

 

link to Centering indicator:

http://www.bernardo.at/index.php?id=65&L=1&katid=6&groupid=85&variation_id=698&product_id=698&suche=32-1070

Again Thank You all for the answers to my questions.

Yours

Kai

 

 

 

Hi,

I'm buying my first lathe and mill (after 50 years of dreams) and I'm looking at a Bernardo Expert 165D with a swing of 330/470mm and length 1000mm.

 

http://www.bernardo.at/index.php?id=62&L=1&openuid=&katid=4&groupid=177&product_id=2922&variation_id=2922

 

I also want a collet system but have no experience with that. I can chose between 5C 3-26mm and an ER25 1-16mm. What is best?

I really do not know what i will use the lathe for, but a steam engine or different kinds of workshop equipment sound pleasing to me

 

The mill will probably be the Bernardo FM50VM

http://www.bernardo.at/index.php?id=62&L=1&openuid=121&katid=4&groupid=170&product_id=3181&variation_id=3181

I have done very little milling and would appreciate any input.

Do I need a cooling system, X-axis power feed, rotary table, dividing head, edge finder or centering indicator.