Member postings for Brian Wood

Alan,

There were some 16 individual DP cutters offered on ebay yesterday, to save time search for Gear Cutters and select Auction only at the top of the list of entries, you won't have more than two pages to search then. I think the ones I spotted were from the USA and labelled as 16P [P= pitch?]

They arent easy to come by though. Try CTC tools, google for contact info and there is still Chronos who might be able to help. Tracy Tools also but they can get expensive. After that they are all expensive!

Good luck

Brian

Try RDG for cutters, they stock a range of 14.5 PA and it may cover 16DP

Brian

Hello Lloyd,

Are we all missing something obvious? If tailstock support is in use on a hard centre, could the squeal be coming from that? It would vary with load and maybe more when lightly loaded.

Just a thought

Brian

Hello Graham'

Thanks for clearing that up, I didn't think it would be intentional. Twist from the hull would be a risk.

Sorry to doubt you

Brian

I might promote some wrath here, but having introduced the subject of lathes fitted on ships and submarines I feel more is needed to explain the reference.

I was using the example just to question the concept of 'level' and it's importance in setting lathes up correctly. On dry land that is easy to establish, but on floating platforms it is anything but; hence my observation that 'rigid' was what was really needed. That seems to have been accepted by several others as well.

I think Graham was a bit provocative with his comment. Ship's chief engineers are the custodians of their workshops and I feel sure they would be rather upset to think they would allow such equipment to be abused; the risk exists industrially of course and culprits found doing so would be suitably roasted in either regime.

Brian

Hello Harold, Graham and others interested,

I have dug out my copies of Tubal Cain's article in ME on levelling a lathe. As KWIL pointed out, page 397 shows the Schlesinger limits for lathes of various quality standards along with the factory test report for his Lorch precision lathe. I also have a Holbrook factory test report from 1984 [found on Mad Modder]

Cain's article deserves reading, it is relevant, interesting and of course well written as you would expect.

I'm not sure about copyright issues in reproducing the page in open forum but it can be made available for those interested via a PM

Brian

Quotes for Schlesinger standards from a book owner. Source Mad Modder

"For Finish Turning Lathes": "Lathe faces (hollow or concave only) within 0 to 0.02 per 300mm in dia."

"For Toolroom Lathes (Highest Degree of Accuracy)": "Lathe faces (concave only) within 0 to 0.015 per 300mm in dia."

"For Facing Lathes": "Lathe faces (concave; only for machines with headstock and carriage mounted on common baseplate) within 0 to 0.05 per 1,000mm in diam."

So, all of these are much better than 0.001" per 3" in diameter and, in all cases, they can be zero.

Brian

Hello Graham,

Many years ago Tubal Cain had an article in ME on the alignment standards applicable to Myford lathes, I clearly remember him referring to Schlesinger standards in the article and quoting from them.

The ME in question would have been after 1988 and of course before he died [1996?] I recall taking some interest in attempting to apply them to my Dad's old ML4 which I had at the time, having the time available to grapple with it.

The title would have been something like 'Aligning a Myford lathe', but I can't be more definite.

Brian

Like everyone else, I am just in awe at the detail and work involved, it is a truly spendid machine, surely worthy of entry in the Guiness book?

A real joy, please thank them both

Brian

Hello Alan,

You could also machine the end caps from suitable size nylon bar, it's cheap and even less likely to mark floors if you chamfer the ends. Make them a little oversize on frame tube outer diameter so that only the nylon is in contact with the floor once fitted.

The insert diameter into the frame needs to have a short reduced diameter section so that they 'start' easily into the tube hole when fitting, just push or tap them home. If you have over machined the spigot wrap a little electricians tape round it to inprove the fit. It is unlikely they will try to walk out

Brian

Just after the war ended during a family visit to Woburn Abbey, I asked my father what the large shiny pyramid shaped heap was that I could see in the distance.

He told me that it was an aircraft/airframe dump; they were brought to the heap in darkness in those long transport trailers [Queen Mary's? if I remember correctly] just because the factories couldn't be switched off without finding something else to occupy the huge army of people employed in them.

It was a big heap too, perhaps one of many

And on a visit to an war surplus place in Leighton Buzzard in the 1950's they were rolling suitcase size radio transmitter/receivers as ballast into the roadway leading to the place. Within the building irself I found a room filled floor to ceiling with aircraft compasses in their boxes, all sold to one buyer as announced on the piece of paper nailed to the door.

Brian

Hello Steve,

I am impressed with the selection of gear you have already, I think you will want to add a mill at some stage too; both vertical/horizontal have a place in the shop. I hope your floor load rating is up to the job.

10M shaper. Tool bits are just fairly hefty lathe tools with 1/2 or 5/8 inch square shanks, often with cranked heads which you can pick up as you need. A tip to remember if you want to remove the tool carrier from the ram; invert it first so that you can wriggle it out of the socket in the end of the ram. It is otherwise a real puzzle!

Test the table for forward lean with a DTI off the toolholder running onto a ground flat laid on it in tine with the ram axis. For accurate work you can pack the job up accordingly. Cross alignment is easy, the box is bolted onto the indexing frame and swivels on a stud. Lean can be corrected if needed by using the machine itself to resurface the table, but I would look hard for causes first. Don't forget to use the table prop, it helps reduce chatter, usually caused by over ambitious cuts or by too wide a cutting face on the tool. Slotting is fun, better done with the slot mounted above the tool to give you a good hold in the vice below.

My interest is in machines and tooling, not models as such. I make a lot of my own gear as a result, not all of it successful I have to say!

Enjoy an absorbing and interesting hobby.

Brian

Hello Keith,

I went to the Oxfam site yesterday, what a selection. The classification system is a bit haphazard I thought.

I also found Ingenious Mechanisms after a prolonged search in 'reference', there was no mention of it under 'engineering'. There was also a lot of duplicate entry which rather diluted the value of the filtration.

As a source of material perhaps as good as you might expect, but rather tediously clanky.

Did I buy Ingenious Mechanisms? No, it had sold out when I found it, probably to you!

Thanks though for the tip, it had never occured to me.

Brian

Hello Alan,

Plates are available individually from our usual suppliers as well as a tailstock to suit a BSO head which is the model you have. You might also pick up a handbook that way if you haven't used the pdf link you were sent. The tailstock will be the same as one used for a 6 inch rotary table set on it's side. The centre height is a nominal 4 inches.

Alternatively look for a tailstock on ebay, they are very non precision things really in that you set the centreheight with cross bolts just to put the support centre on axis through the head. After that it needs no further setting.

Index plates also appear on ebay from time to time, useful to have as they may extend your set. They are easy enough to modify [with care] to fit your head too with a little lathework. You can accomodate plates up to 5 inch diameter and still get the dividing head to clear the table without having to use raising blocks.

That diameter will enable drilling for a ring of holes up to #69 and those can be reached with the indexing pin on your head by extending the slot to increase the arm radius.

The standard plate set you need are 3 in number to give

15,16,17,18,19,20 holes

21,23,27,29,31.33 holes

37,39,41,43,47,49 holes

The set will give you all divisions up to 50 and many beyond that are multiples of the numbers you have.

The spindle bore is actually a Brown and Sharp taper, but I have found 2MT fits well enough. The nose on yours will be threaded for Myford chucks.

Enjoy your new toy

Brian

I trawl those shops frequently, but it does depend on where you are for real gold.

Here in Thirsk/ Northallerton area the usual fodder is completely non technical, Darlington used to be good but most of the industry has left there now. 2nd hand books shops can be worthwhile, there is a decent one at Saltburn on the coast, but the best is probably at Alnwick in Northumberland, it used to be the rail station and a mecca on the few times we travel that far north. University towns are better too, Durham was well stocked at one time.

Brian.

Hello again Keith,

How very helpful of you. I found it this morning as a softback book on Amazon.co.uk for under £6 delivered and I was able to order the Workshop Technologies book you recommended from Tee Publishing, it is still listed in their 2012 paper catalogue on page 10.

Hugely expensive at £3.00!!

So a most rewarding trawl all round.

The Ingenious Mechanisms will have to wait for another day, Amazon.com are selling the set of 4 for $125 and then there would be shipping to the UK from USA. I think I will have enough to browse through for the time being.

Best wishes Brian

Hello Keith and Michael,

Thank you both for the information, none of that would have readily emerged without my original posting. It never fails to surprise me what can tumble out in response, some of it can be quite obscure.

Brian

Some years ago I was shown round a diving support vessel while docked at Grimsby.

Down in the bowels of the ship was a Colchester sized lathe bolted down to the steel plates of the workshop floor. The ship had suphisticated multi thrusters to keep it on staton over work areas, but a level machine? Not possible out at sea and it would still be needed to fix or mend things in a hurry..

British nuclear submarines used to have [and may still do] a Myford 7 lathe securely bolted to heavy thick steel plate in the turbine section , again liable to all sorts of angulation from level.

I think the real secret is more to do with mounting up on a really solid surface to resist distortion or flexing, after all if that is the case then everything is, and should stay, in register.

Brian

Hello Win,

A picture would help to get some idea of what you're asking for. I tried the url you posted, it's just a copy of this post. Without guidance none of us can help.

Brian

Thank you one and all for your interest and contributions, both to rectify my inept posting of pictures and for suggesting ways and means.

I think Michael Williams spoke with authority based surely on experience, which was after all what I had hoped to promote. Clive Foster also mentioned following a master.

The process has to have been simple and repeatable, these things were made by the thousand. It had simply not occured to me to use a master pattern and copy repeatedly, I was more into one off mode instead. A very useful method for other situations too.

One request for Keith Long which might also be of interest to others, is there a publication in the Workshop Technology series 440 he can refer me too? I tried Googling without a lot of meaningful results other than language workshops and trying Mechanical movements yielded a Victorian publication for 507 ideas by Brown available from Amazon, that didn't seem right either but it was more relevant.

Clive Foster's link for Southbend drawings and information was also interesting, I shall study it in detail.for my education at least.

Brian

Edited By Brian Wood on 18/02/2013 17:02:27

Edited By Brian Wood on 18/02/2013 17:04:11