Member postings for Ramon Wilson

Hello Jason, yes it's good to see it come together at last.

Had to spend some time on dealing with the lagging first as I didn't want to strip it down again to do so - tested the patience a bit did that!

The tubing was swaged in at both ends. It's 3mm tube from Albion Alloys so drilled one end 3.05 and the other 2.8. Each tube had one end turned to 2.75 and inserted using a wire as a guide. I made a small anvil and a tapered mandrel to set them. Once all were in I painted all round with Loctite bearing fit (runnier than 638) then each tube was swaged using the drill press to drive a silver steel mandrel.

I was only going to do a few then leave the rest for as you say this will see no steam but once started it soon became a matter of doing them all!

Next stage is to get the pistons in and the head on the standards in order to get the crossheads aligned before bolting the head in place

Cheers - hope you are well.

After a fair distraction this year I have finally managed to get some work done on this and am at the stage where 'build up' has begun.

The shaft is in 'proper' now with a good running fit in the bearings, the bedplate painted and bolted securely down to the base board so that if any discrepancies in the make up are found they can be dealt with as they occur rather than find out later.

I have uploaded a fair number of images to the album up to the latest stage which should be self explanatory so will not go into detail on them though if anyone does have a question then I'm happy to respond.

Here's the last pic taken tonight which shows the condenser now tubed out and ready to begin the final work on the cylinder head before it can be set in place.

Hopefully I'll get at least a good couple of months on this now so that should see some definite progress in coming weeks.

Hope that's of interest to some

Tug

Agreed Bernard and Brian, the best yet? What a super new venue too.

No ME exhibits for me this year - had my 'plastic' hat on but what a really great weekend. Came home completely 'talked' out

If you missed it you were in the wrong place for sure!

Here's the you tube link and here's to next years show -

Well done all at Halesworth MES

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 01/11/2022 08:00:25

Hi guys

For those in the Lowestoft area there is a two day model exhibition covering all disciplines to be held over this week end at the East Coast College on St peters Street Lowestoft. Thee first since the pandemic it's been well looked forward to by exhibitors

Judging by the amount of exhibits being brought in yesterday it should be worth a visit if you are looking for something to go to

That's where I'm off now so maybe see you there

Tug

Nigel, if you study the images of the cylinder build that Jason points you to you can see that the passage ways are all milled in before the final assembly. I packed the passage ways with soft polystyrene packing to ensure the JBW did not get into them. Once all set dribbling cellulose thinner through the ports dissolved the polystyrene. Worked perfectly.

Don't know if that will help your particular situation but this is the second time I have made a cylinder block in this fashion and am very satisfied with the results

Tug

Morning Doc, yes I do now realise that's how you see it, just that initially I thought your intention was to improve on the PR improvement so to speak.

Even the basic Twin Vic is a nice model in it's own right so any embellishment however minor will improve matters. 'At the end of the day' the important matter is to enjoy what you do and how you do it.

My input has always been based not on what you should do but what I have done and found to be the easiest to achieve an accurate result with minimal effort. I'd like to think that I have never made a comment on anything without previous experience of it and at times an example to show for it. Advice comes from different directions on any forum or indeed club room - but it's the individual that makes the choice and hopefully enjoys the process as a result.

On that note your thoughts on a Parquet flooring may be a whim to some but it would certainly be an eye catcher from a display point of view. My thoughts are based on planking ships decks with similar width but much longer lengths of wood using cyano as said. I'm not sure I would want to tackle a parquet floor with CA as it can be difficult to control but I see no reason why (apart from its a big commitment) you should not give it a go. If you draw it out in Cad as you say with edging and all and place the model on top you'll soon get the idea of whether it's worth doing or not. Jasons idea of inserted areas of it is a good suggestion too.

If you decide to go for plain wood may I suggest using lime - readily available in strips from various sources - an easy wood to work that takes a stain well and has a fine grain too - the latter being something to really consider from a scale effect point of view.

I can't recall seeing the ST Twin Vic display model but to my mind a firm sub base on which to construct the model base is an absolute necessity - the firmer the better too as it's easy to wring something if not. Whether you then decide to put it on separate plinths is down to choice.

Heres a top view of mine - main base is about 1" thick multi layer ply, a scrap piece I coined from somewhere - the plinths are MDF. Apart from the Corliss base which was a constructed affair all other engines have been on kitchen work top chip board with a hard wood border - very rigid.

All the best - R

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 19/10/2022 08:45:49

Thanks Jason, downloaded and saved

That's a cracking image Jason, don't suppose you have one of the valve side too.

I wasn't referring to the engine but the room floor area which though long appears quite narrow - some of the rooms that housed twin engines appear quite massive in area by comparison. Whilst there may be the odd one or so I can't recall any examples of wood floors in the larger rooms in any of the Watkin books I have but it's been quite a while since I was gleaning images for detail from those.

As you are aware, I thought for a while that Doc was wanting to replicate a full size engine. As the intention is to build a nice model based on full size then it comes down to 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' and I'm sure we will see just that at journeys end.

Regards - R

Doc,

I quite agree for as though some of the larger engine houses show little evidence of wood flooring, quite a few of the smaller, such as the one in Jason's image, do.

Albeit an engraving, here's a good example that might be worth considering - not 'parquet' I know but a lot less work involved

I can see your point Doc but even in a museum setting I would sincerely hope there was a very supportive foundation directly below those floor boards even if they are around 4-5inches thick.

I would say that most full size engines of your build type were mounted on either concrete or stone block foundations which were usually, though not always, higher than the floor itself. Floor 'decoration' is another matter of course.

Just had a quick look through a volume of the Textile Mill Engine which confirms this, some engines appearing to be directly mounted to the floor, others on 'plinths' of varying thickness. To my mind the plinth gives the engine another dimension so I've always done that. but it isn't something that's cast in stone (oops!)

I'll look forward to seeing your result

R

Yes I would agree with you on that Roy but I think Doc wants to make a representational model more than an accurate portrayal.

It's a hard one to call - when I did the Corliss engine I pondered long and hard about how to do the base surface - in the end I came down to leaving it the plain formica layer to 'represent' a painted stone floor. I did consider scribing slab lines into the surface as I did on the Mc'Onie but even baulked at that in the end from fear of making an error and spoiling it - plain it was then

It's the same with a black and white tiled floor - those square pieces have to be perfectly sized and perfectly square to do the job well.

Personally, I prefer to put the effort into the model and keep the base as simple as can be with easy cleaning in mind.

I stand corrected Jason

I have always thought of it as a 'PVA'. I have not used it as previously described for a PVA glue being reactivated by a hot iron so a test would be required to see if it acts in a similar way

I've stuck quite a few small strips of wood down to a substrate (usually birch ply) over the years though nothing quite like what Doc has in mind. These have mainly been decking on 'ship' models and have included black paper inserts between to simulate caulking. Adhesive has always been very thin cyano and application has to be done with care to ensure the CA does not get on to the top surface. It was always applied to the edge with the plank held in position beforehand and allowed to wick through underneath

The main thing to be aware of is the positioning of initial 'key' parts as any errors soon manifest themselves into a deviation from that desired. Same with the 'planks' or parts - any error in length or width quickly becomes obvious as the differences build up.

I admire Docs courage to having a go - it's a lot of pieces to fix over quite a large area and will require some quite accurate parts. Given that, I feel it would be best to cut them by 'machine' to ensure symmetry of length rather than by hand if possible. Thought also needs to be given to symmetry of the whole pattern if a border edging is to be done too.

A complex task but one that will be very impressive overall if done well - which I'm sure it will be having seen work done so far

Best - R

Hi Doc,

Yes if you could 'contain' all your small pieces from moving somehow you could indeed iron through them in a large area. I've not tried it on a paper substrate however so as with trying anything new a good test piece is well worth while beforehand.

I've used various PVA's over the years - my favourite (for aeromodelling) was Borden Wood glue, later renamed Humbrol Extra Bond. Both long extinct. Any of the 'TiteBond' adhesives are good PVAs but when I made the steam launch I tried the Titebond 3 (green label) water proof version. What impressed me most with using that was it's extremely quick (for PVA) grab time - now I don't use anything else. Might also be worth considering.

I usually mount my engines on a foundation of MDF set on the base proper. This can be worked to represent simple concrete foundation or separate blocks if desired, it's very flat, uniform and hard enough to withstand the bolting forces and any subsequent running. It would also mean you don't need to spend time fixing tiny pieces underneath the engine which will never be seen.

The wood lagging I've made for the marine engine is attached with CA to a 12 thou thick aluminium sheet lagging.. This was made from a paper template made in three parts off the cylinder block to achieve the expanded profile.

I've been drilling the head and fitting small bushes tapped 12BA for the holding screws today. I'll have to pop some pics up at some stage.

Best - R

Further to your last post Doc I just did similar for the lagging on the marine engine

Just two pieces of balsa CA'd to a slip of Conti Board and a stop to give the length.

The major guide acts as a guide for the saw which is a Zona razor saw - finest TPI they do

That gave a consistent result but if I were doing 2500 pieces I would reinforce the end of the saw guide with something.

Hope that's of use too

Rather you than me from a patience perspective Doc but it's going to look impressive if you bring it off. I've done similar with 'decking' but with much longer pieces. Only thing I'd comment on is that the engine would be extremely unlikely to sit direct to the flooring - the flooring being brought to the engine foundations.

As an aside are you aware that if you pre-coat the part with PVA and let it dry you can activate it again with a hot iron? ie place the part in position hold an iron on for a few seconds and the part is stuck - Done this a lot with 1/32 and 1/16 ply reinforcing on balsa surfaces - works well and the technique might be of use to you.

Finally picked up on the Marine Engine - hope to see it through to finish this time - ha! says he!

Best - R

It's been quite a time since I last went to either of the main London shows and the TEE event - Doncaster was always too far.

I began going in the late sixties when the ME show was over a week long (ten days?) and held in Seymour Hall - that and the following years saw many excellent trade stands which made a trip to London or the Midlands worthwhile but after a few years it gradually began to decline. Hard to see at first if you hadn't been to previous shows but distinctly noticeable

I began to 'see the writing' after the move to 'Ally Pally' when at one event I bought a fair amount of small fastenings from a well known supplier only to realise once home I had actually paid more for them at the show than what I would have done if I had actually sent for them. 'Increasing cost of the stands' was the arbitrary reason given somewhere at some stage which is fair enough I suppose but it marked the decline of 'show bargains' for me. There were the odd occasions of course but less and less as the years moved on

It's the same with the plastic model shows - diminishing numbers of traders due to the costs of travel as well as the stands they need and of course the simpler alternative of Internet sales beginning to make their mark too.

Yes it's nice to see stuff and handle it but the cost has to be realistic - it gets harder to justify the expense of actually going against what one is likely to find worthwhile going for.

The above doesn't take into account the models on display either - another huge decline compared to years gone but that's another similar factor.

Those of us lucky enough to have been to the ones in the past can only mourn the decline - new visitors will see what's there now as the standard - I can only hope it improves for them.

Tug

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 13/10/2022 23:00:00

It is not possible to heat treat piano wire and bend it after . Any heat treatment destroys the make up and it will disintegrate and crumble with ease if any stress is applied to the bend. As far as I'm aware it's virtually impossible to heat treat it to return it to it's original temper by home methods - that's not contradicting Old Scool here - his application is totally different

As a life long user of the stuff from an aeromodelling perspective I'm afraid these days the term 'piano' wire is a bit of a misnomer. Virtually all sold at model shops will not be true piano wire but 'Music Wire'. The shops will insist it's the same but there is a distinct difference. The former, size for size, is much harder to bend and the latter will crack if bent too sharply.

The only source I know of true piano wire is from the Balsa Cabin and SLEC and I can vouch for the former having only recently bought some from them.

Piano wire is only available is SWG (standard wire guage) sizes where as music wire is sized in imperial or nearest metric equivalent.

Piano wire varies in finished surfaces some having a dark spiral others shiny some even polished but music wire comes in a uniform dark grey appearance.

The difference in use for instance on a model aircraft undercarriage - usually 10swg (appx 1/8) in most of mine - is it's ability to spring and return to pre-bent shape - music wire will steadily move and widen and require re-bending within a few landings - if you bend a piano wire one on a heavy landing then returning that to the original can be quite an issue

I wrote a bit about this on the Barton Control Line Site some time back - there are some pictures somewhere that shows the difference in appearance.

Best - Tug

PS all the above  refers to purchasing this in straight lengths - not coils

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 09/10/2022 19:43:35

Whilst I agree with Martins assessment of dirt/swarf in the handwheel pinion causing a tight spot (that does happen on occasion) it would be unlikely to create such a 'banding' every 3-4mm. Swarf there would, and is, felt every time the saddle is moved by the handwheel too.

Paul,

your initial post states that your lathe has 'started ' to "stop, start and hesitate" - are you saying this is new compared to previous use?

You also sate that the leadscrew nut is clean and appears to be okay. If this is the case then the issue is elsewhere. A new nut will not necessarily cure the problem.

As I said previously if the carriage stops moving then there has to be delay in drive transmission somewhere - when in drive any backlash is constantly taken up so with several leadscrew pitches in contact with the clasp nut it is unlikely to be between the two. It is more likely to be something that is impeding the leadscrew drive allowing the tool to dwell in as the saddlle stops.

If you can't feel the banding nor measure it the it's probably the oft seen 'banding' as a result of fine cut and feed that sometimes occurs. It's usually a direct copy of the leadscrew pitch though.

EDIT - Well done, new one on me but one well worth remembering. Keep on turning

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 09/10/2022 16:33:36

If the carriage is actually stopping as you say if only momentarily then there must be a lapse in the drive momentarily.

You haven't mentioned it but have you checked the gear train for free movement - might be something as simple as a piece of swarf stuck in a tooth gap or a gear sticking on a drive bush giving a slight lag as the key moves in it's slot

I've seen banding before, usually a result as described by Steve and when taking very fine cuts however I don't recall it ever happening on my Super 7 which I've had since new

Just a thought that may help

Tug

Nick - if you read this - you have a PM