Member postings for R Smith 1

Kiwi Bloke - I've got a couple videos by a Russian melodeon maker on how to make reeds with just hand tools, the traditional way. And I've got some official measurements from a mid 2000s Tula bayan (including the bayan bass monsters!). Happy to share - just in case you're interested in trying your hand at it.

One week down the line I've made half a dozen sample reed tongues, including rough tuning, cut a few slots in a solid plank (freehand! I've been told that if I can't do this job freehand, then I don't know how to use a file, so I should learn it first, before I start using jigs to speed up the process), and fitted a reed to to a slot, much better than a soviet factory. Albeit, I still have quite a bit to go before I can match the Italian master craftsmen haha. All that with just a couple regular files.

I now need to make some safety files for the job, which might be a bit of a challenge.

I am yet to discover the dark art of using solid rivets, but overall, I'm quite happy, given that I've got close to zero metalworking experience.

A CBA (Chromatic Button Accordion*) has got buttons on the treble side (unlike a piano accordion that has piano keys). Historically, the buttons have been arranged in 3 rows, with several layouts. B system, aka Do3 (B note in the first (outer) row), C System, with C in the first row (aka Do1). There are other, region - specific systems, like Do2 in parts of Belgium and Finnish C system. Since 3 rows are very hard to play, some clever guy decided to add 2 more rows to the keyboard, so that row 4 doubles row 1, and row 5 doubles row 2. This has made the C system easier and has revolutionised the B system, making it a lot more user-friendly than it used to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_button_accordion

In essence, C system is typically associated with French musette, while B system with Eastern European music. Unless you are in Belgium or Netherlands, where B system is associated with musette music. Or in Germany, where B and C have existed side-by-side regardless of what music you were playing.

I hope this has cleared things up for you - the accordion is really, very straightforward. Until you open it up and see over 2,000 moving parts that all need to be set up to work perfectly.

*Do not confuse it with the British Chromatic Button accordion, which looks exactly the same, but is, in fact, a hybrid between a bisonoric 3-row melodeon and accordion-style Stradella bass, and is therefore not a chromatic button accordion, despite the name.

Well it's B-system, alright. But needs a lot of work done to it, that I intend to slowly carry out over the next year or even two (the only way I could afford the dang thing!). Not many repairs that are urgent, but all parts are starting to show their age and will need an overhaul sooner or later.

Getting B system in the UK is almost as bad. If your budget is unlimited, you can probably go for an AKKO or a Jupiter shipped to your doorstep. Otherwise, you're stuck hunting auction sites for old but very high end boxes from the Netherlands, sometimes Germany & Belgium, where B system was historically played. You only see about 2-4 a year that are worth buying and the price/condition is acceptable.

Grabbing a file is, indeed, better. I like hand tools and like learning to use then properly.

Thanks for all the advice folks.

The PPD option is particularly interesting, especially that they are quite local-ish to me.

Thanks folks.

"Do you really need to go down what can turn out to be a very deep and expensive rabbit hole?"

That's a funny question to ask on a model engineer's forum. The answer is, of course, yes, but it won't help me cut a square slot in the alloy, would it. You are right - way too much to learn for this particular task (although I've always wanted a milling machine).

I've come up with an acceptable process for sheet metal: cut strips with aviation snips, then define the base of the reed (the stepped bit where the rivet goes) with an eclipse nibbler tool. It cuts very well and almost without distortion, so only requires a light pass of a smooth file after it. Once the base is defined, the reed is cut roughly to width with sharp shears and then filed to size. I made half a dozen tongues this way without any problems.

"I think the OP is brave or misguided..."

No, just plain stupid

You are correct that in a factory setting, the reed is stamped. This is a controversial topic, as ideally, you want every reed to have its own size. Clicker stamping means that reeds are grouped into sizes to save money on dies, with same size serving up to half a dozen reeds. This reflects poorly on their acoustic properties, but factories don't care. E.g. I've got a Cagnoni a-mano (hand made) reeds in one of my boxes from 1980s, and they are still made from grouped blanks. This is supposed to be the creme de la creme of Italian reeds ffs!

The "real" hand made process, as employed by craftsmen in Neanderthal times is different. You size the slots. This doesn't have to have precise dimensions - at least not in model engineer's terms. The slots do need to have straight sides and the walls are angled slightly, so the "face" side slot is smaller than the other side. This stops the reed from clipping the frame as it passes. Interestingly, in a factory setting this is not done, the walls are stamped straight and the gap between the reed and the slot is increased. Another lazy, cost cutting measure.

The reed is then cut & filed to fit as well as possible in the slot - this is done by filing and this is where accuracy is required.

Then the reed is profiled & thicknessed, which is an art form the secrets of which are behind the seven seals and are passed from generation to generation of Italian and Russian reed makers... Of course, if you have a high quality hand-made reed block as an example, nobody's stopping you from copying it .

So far, I've had absolutely no problems copying half a dozen hand-made Cagnonis, which gives me hope that, as long as I can do the fitting and the riveting (I'm yet to try it when the right tools arrive), then the task can be done, and can be done better than a factory.

I play a CBA, and my biggest box has got 56 notes on the treble side and 52 in the (free) bass. 5 voices in trebles and 2 in the bass, two reeds per note, so there's 768 individual reeds in it.

Assuming I can, indeed, make an entire reed+plate combo, I'll be looking to downsize to only about 200 reeds, which should be very manageable. 4 reeds a week will only take me a year, and I'm in absolutely no rush, as this is just a fun wee project.

Apologies for an even dafter question: I see that Axminster has the SX1 mini mill on discount.

Is there much that I need for milling aluminium (3-7mm) and thin brass(3-4mm)? Afaik I don't even need to lubricate - just stick a cutter in and go?

bernard - thank you for the suggestion. I've been looking for an excuse to buy a milling machine for a few years now, and that's an option. I haven't thought about the sandwich thing though.

Thanks.

I should have mentioned that I've been building guitars and mandolins for a decade, so not new to creating things that make noise .

The secret knowledge bit is overrated - most things are straightforward, but one needs to be able to separate disinformation from various forum "gurus", out-of-date books and traditions from things that actually matter to making a good instrument. A lot of the time, things are done in a traditional way without anyone ever questioning why everyone's doing it that way...

Complex - yes. But it doesn't need to be more complex that it is. I'm a lot more concerned about my ability to cut accurate slots in alloy and then fine-fitting the reeds. So this will probably be a fail, but hey, it's better than wasting your time watching tv, right?

In most cases you can find all the solutions yourself by experimenting.

Ironically, a plasma cutter will set you back less than a clicker press with a set of custom dies...

No tormek - I'm an old school bugger. A piece of glass & abrasive paper to keep the edges razor sharp.

Thank you Speedy - I guess that can be the solution to mass-etch them once I've prototyped the sizes.

Thank you very much.

Must have mentioned - I just want to hog off the material before I start fine-fitting with a file.

Filing has so far been the option that I tried, and it seems to take a lot of time, hence me looking for some way to cut.

Sanding, dremel, etc - I will probably overheat the metal and harden it.

Don't have a CNC laser or plasma cutter.

I'm using CS95 steel for the prototype, because that's what I had kicking about the workshop.

Hello All.

I would be grateful for some advice on the best tools & equipment for making fine cuts in sheet metal. I am a long time woodworker, but when it comes to any metals, I'm pretty hopeless and clueless, so apologies for daft questions.

I am looking to experiment with making some accordion reeds, which involves cutting reed tongue blanks out of ~0.6 sheet spring steel. Ideally, the cuts shall be reasonably accurate (say, within 0.5-1.0 mm) and they shall not bend & deform the sheet steel.

A simple example would be to start with a strip of 8mm-wide spring steel, and then, along the first 40mm of the strip, cut a 1-2mm off from both edges, without making a pig's ear of the remaining ~4-mm wide strip in the middle. It seems that bog standard tin snips are unable to make such cuts without severely bending & deforming the blank.

Would something like a manual sheet nibbler work well? Some special shears perhaps?

Thank you.